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2010-08-16*LunchBunchStart: 12:06:09
vicky: how was your week-end? 3rdthawkins: Great!!! vicky: thats wonderful! I also see where you were able to get into the SC records 3rdthawkins: yes! don't know why it didn't dawn on me to use IE vicky: well ise better late than never 3rdthawkins: uh, huh it is vicky: That is really a great project in SC as well as the VA records I wish that Texas had that and free too!! 3rdthawkins: yes, it is very helpful vicky: Its all about paying it forward volunteers have to be commended to the utmost 3rdthawkins: it's funny, Texas was the one that seem to have all the records available, I had a great time using it, when I was searching in SC for my dad's line, I wished SC was more like Texas, but I guess it goes both ways there's things I wish was available in SC (specifically Charleston) that are available in Texas, and vice versa vicky: and I dont find records in Texas .. only census records If there was an archives near me it would be different 3rdthawkins: but Texas doesn't seem to have a library like Charleston where you can email them requests and they even send you a copy, and there's no charge (specifically Harrison County, Rockwall County, Kaufman etc.) vicky: What records were you able to find online besides the census.. not talking about those DC's on Family Search 3rdthawkins: in Texas? vicky: yes Khathu: hello 3rd and vicky Hello AYWalton AYWalton: Hello there everyone. vicky: hello Khathu and AYWalton Khathu: hello alt AYWalton: Howdy, 3rd, Ms. Vicky, howdy khathu. alt: hello folks.... 3rd, AY, Khathu & vicky AYWalton: hope everyone is doing well, today. 3rdthawkins: well, if you google, you can see a lot of information has been put online by different people in different counties of Texas, and it helped me find Date of Births/Deaths/Marriages for people in my line, South Carolina doesn't have anyone doing that hello Khathu AY and alt Khathu: vicky - thank you for the words of comfort vicky: I even find that in Harrison County there are lots of DC's missing that should have been therre you are welcome khathu 3rdthawkins: yes, I agree, thank God my grgr grp's married in Rockwally County vicky: I have been googling and googling and googling 3rd alt: Availability of online State Records ---- seems to vary by State vicky: yes for sure alt.. alt: and the range of years seems to be quite different State by State. Khathu: AYWalton - great response on African/Native American Forum vicky: I just ventured into Camp County Texas looking into my aunts husbands line AYWalton: oh you mean to the lady looking for Katie and Birdie etc? Khathu: yes AYWalton: well, I felt she needed to drop the Indian quest and find her folks. I am just glad that she did. vicky: I was just asked Sunday at church what kind of Indian I had in me .. I said "huh' alt: I guess the 'tendency' is to grab those oral histories and try to go from there without any background research vicky: boy I swear... 3rdthawkins: but no one's going to be eternally condemned for not having done research AYWalton: it is a self esteem kind of thing, and a way to get away from the slave master, who dropped his blood in the family line. In many cases, it is, anyway. alt: not saying that 3rdthawkins vicky: for sure 3rd but from a person who is into genealogy and doing it the correct way documents come into play alt: but it doesn't hurt to 'try' and put folks onto the standard path of genealogical research.. if they are really interested in doing their genealogies AYWalton: yes it is always a challenge to do that, but if they try they might have some success. vkn: Howdy all yall. I be running but go here http://afrigeneantalking.ning.com/group/familytrees alt: if they just want to 'collect' names & dates.. that is another story. vkn: This will be the community center so sign up. Many more changes to come. AYWalton: thanks, vkn! vkn: bye for now vicky: ok vkn AYWalton: did any of your catch the genealogy radio program yesterday? vicky: Even obituaries that I have read are sometimes over reached alt: not me, I forgot about vicky: I have about 6 that I looked at and each one claimed that they started the Food Bank here in Phx Its the play on words.. I know that a couple of them just volunteered at the food bank AYWalton: , well folks want to write something nice about the deceased, I suppose. vicky: no to your question AYWalton on the gen program AYWalton: I caught it and even got to make a call and get on the air. It was a good program. alt: The Family Tree thing.... whas up.... AfriGeneas trying to do an Ancestry or Tribal Pages thing? vicky: yes, and that part will carry on for another generation that that ancestor started the most successful food bank in Az alt: that's what I call the 'embellish factor' vicky AYWalton: hello there, free. How's it going down in NC? freeaainnc: hello all ) good AY, working on a tricky question today AYWalton: tricky? how so? Khathu: have a good day alt: some folks like to 'enhance' the roles their ancestor's may have played in their communities. freeaainnc: well, trying to answer the best I can to fit in the parameters of how I can answer AYWalton: Greetings, Ms. Selma!!! freeaainnc: hi selma Selma: Good afternoon everyone freeaainnc: AY but also just trying to figure out how to present all the info overall Selma: How was the radio show AY What was the tricky question free 3rdthawkins: hello Selma AYWalton: it went really well, Selma! and the time really flew by quickly! freeaainnc: the question itself is not tricky. Woman is trying to find her great grandmother's parents. I found the mother, but apparently born out of wedlock. Also, she didn't specifically say that her grandmother was black so i'm not allowed to mention race in my answer I found them in 1870 census with a different surname and without being able to explain about name changes for freed slaves in 1870 census records, I can't really give her a full and complete info on why their names were different and why she should not discard that info simply because the name is different AYWalton: can you not ask her just to make sure you have the right family----"is this an African American family that you are seeking information about?" Selma: Do you answer people by email free? AYWalton: or point out that "the family name is common for the area, and there are many with that surname---are we looking for a caucasian or African American family?" something like that. it should be clarified, don't you think? freeaainnc: Selma yes that is why I can't say anything about race b/c we have no idea what race they are in the first place and don't want to possibly offend someone, which has happened before and why we are not able to say anything about race that's just it AY, everyone with that name in that area is black Selma: As a black person..I am offended by the idea that saying you found a black family is offensive AYWalton: then ask them to tell you what you need to know. Tell them that the county has lots of people by that name. Then ask if she is seeking a caucasian family or a black family? that is not offensive? freeaainnc: I agree selma, well not saying that I found a black family, but not being able to tell her in the first place AYWalton: she has to help you help her. freeaainnc: AY that is a good idea, I'll talk to my boss about it AYWalton: and asking a question about race---hey this is America---and America is ALL about race. The records identify each person by race. And there is nothing wrong with being black. Selma: RACE is the elephant in the room thorughtout American History and to the Present freeaainnc: but I want my boss to read the letter again closer b/c I don't think there should be a problem with race. Her question was not about race, but she said in the letter that the race in census went back and forth between black and mulatto Selma: Oh well then if that is the case then she knows these folks are black Trust me vicky: for sure AYWalton: oh gracious----is that all? then she knows it is a black family. if it went between white and mulatto she might have an issue especially if somebody passed. freeaainnc: right AY! and also I found that there may be a marriage certificate for the people she is looking for in that county and at that time the records were segregated so if she contacts the archives looking for a marriage record for them, she must say whether they are black or white Selma: Tell your boss you got the Afrigeneas Lunchbunch seal of approval to mention race AYWalton: Gracious----just explain to her the instructions that the enumerator had---he had to decide himself by looking at folks. But----we ALL have to do that. freeaainnc: AY exactly! but my boss is so afraid of offending someone selma, ok! Selma: You mean she is afraid of offending white folk AYWalton: so some imaginary white person MIGHT get offended, so your boss won't let you help a woman who is clearly black? Puleeze!!! vicky: when I write to the Historical Museum in Tx free I tell them I am looking for AA's freeaainnc: not necessarily b/c if they are black and we know that and ask for a request and we find there is white in the family, we can't mention that either AYWalton: say what? hmm.............. (no comment) Selma: no comment.. alt: catching up with the discussion Selma: WEll send them the image and let them figure it out freeaainnc: well b/c the way she thinks, if they are black and we find someone white in the family, they may be offended by that if we point that out. It all has to do with problems we had in the past AYWalton: Hmm.........looks like we need to have a set of rules for folks. freeaainnc: I mean they might be offended if we point it out they have a white ancestor Selma: No, black folks know about white folk..its white folks who have tunnel vision AYWalton: Most black folks KNOW that white folks could be in the family. alt: sounds like you might need to 'enlighten' your boss as well as the client. 3rdthawkins: when I was emailing the Charleston library to decide if a person who married my gr gm's sister was the same one who was previously married to someone else, the librarian didn't hesitate to tell me I had the wrong person. Wasn't afraid to offend me, just told me point blank what she thought. I got to email back and explain my research findings and what I had as facts. She was very helpful. Not sure why your boss is afraid of offending someone AYWalton: I was just about to say the same thing--------it's white folks who have problems with black folks in the family! freeaainnc: like I said, all these parameters are because of problems that happened in the past Selma: Now truthfully I don't always specify race... AYWalton: problems---or just moments that made your boss uncomfortable? freeaainnc: I agree, it's white folks with the problems, but I've met a few (very few) blacks who were adamant that they couldn't have had a white ancestor actual problems AY with folks getting offended Selma: Only because I don't want folks to decide for me what is pertinent or not AYWalton: that's ok---they will get over it, too. freeaainnc: right Selma Selma: Oh I have had white folks offended when the called me... alt: why not just send them a copy of the reocrds you're finding and let them decide .... or better yet 'direct' them to the records that are in question. 3rdthawkins: one thing I hate is when (black) people say, It's Not US with the problem, it's THEM.....When we ALL have problems AYWalton: but with issues of identity, plenty of folks get upset. They will still live. So not discussing race is an office policy? freeaainnc: I am alt, but I'm also trying to give backrground info and how can i explain to them the name change in the 1870 census without explaining about freedmen choosing different names around that time frame? that is why this is tricky for me AYWalton: in a genealogy section when people in the records are classified by race? alt: hmmmm, my problem is just the opposite of yours 3rdthawkins AYWalton: so what about the name issue free? What is the tricky part? freeaainnc: AY i'm not totally sure what I can and can't do yet and this is the first I've heard about not discussing race when we don't know what the race of the patron is AYWalton: you can't discuss the fact that they may have been slaves, because they have not said that they are black? and there is a policy that you cannot ask? freeaainnc: AY - they were Peak/Peek/Peaks in 1880-1930 census, but Cameron in 1870 AYWalton: "for clarification"? freeaainnc: I don't know AY AYWalton: wow. Very interesting. freeaainnc: AY that is basically it Selma: Name changes are not only specific to black folks...although for the time frame 1870.. freeaainnc: but I am new to this so I don't know all the ins and outs and cans and cannots yet AYWalton: you will have to find that out, free--exactly what you can and cannot do, it seems. Selma: Lots of European immigrants changed their names or had their names changed upon entry into the countyr freeaainnc: right selma AYWalton: Actually many changed their names themselves. alt: oh wow freeaainnc !!!! that has been a problem with that surname not only in NC, but Ohio & Michigan ... who is black/white depends on the where & when freeaainnc: but these particular folks were black AYWalton: immigration and passenger records show most with their original names. Selma: If the person asking the question mentions that they were black and or mulatto..then she knows they are black AYWalton: well mention a few websites to help them---like Ancestry, Rootsweb, and AFRIGENEAS!!!!!!!!!!!! we will help set her on the right path. Selma: Yes, send her here we will explain freeaainnc: I agree Selma! 3rdthawkins: yeah, you have to get your boss to read that letter again hello ProDru Selma: Actually I have been giving this some thought...Afrigeneas is the place to go to when you don't understand. AYWalton: ProfessorDru is in da house! alt: also I recommend you acquaint your boss with Afrigeneas too ... free AYWalton: wassup Dru? Selma: and we give you without the sugar coat..although some folks want that sugar coat freeaainnc: I can't AY! vicky: hello ProfessorDru ProfessorDru: Save the Link for my TV Apperance, http://findyourfolks.blogspot.com/2010/08/save-link.html alt: gotcha ProfessorDru freeaainnc: I agree 3rd, I'm hoping to pin her down for 5 minutes this afternoon ProfessorDru: I'm so excited--I just can't hide it... AYWalton: perhaps a list of sites that are FREE sites might help. Selma: We can tell Dru.. freeaainnc: congrats dr. Dru! ProfessorDru: Selma AYWalton: FREE has a nice flavor, and might not be offensive even to the boss. when does it air, ProfessorDru? freeaainnc: AY - again, free does not equal "public" and we can only share "public" sites with them ProfessorDru: this Friday night AYWalton: that's too bad, free. vicky: heyyyy Nadasue freeaainnc: AY agree! it's a dumb rule! Nadasue: hello hello hello! hope you all are well and have had a great summer alt: you mean you can't refer them to Ancestry or the Familysearch sites? AYWalton: pretty good, how about you? Nadasue: hi ProfessorDru Excited to hear about the show. Tried to comment from my cell phone but it wouldn't work freeaainnc: alt I can refer to the main LDS site, but not ancestry, afrigeneas, rootsweb, etc. only LDS, NARA, state archives, and other libraries ProfessorDru: Hope you can watch the show, Nadasue. Have you ever heard of this show? vicky: I would love to hear the response after you chat with your boss free Nadasue: doing well.. busy summer and issues with home computer so haven't been abel to make it in freeaainnc: just remind me tomorrow Vicky AYWalton: sounds like you are all limited to what you can share with your patrons, only other libraries and archives. Nadasue: yes ProfessorDru I believe I've heard of it... May have even seen it a time or two. I attended Nathan's workshop in June and bought his CD. Really looking forward to it! AYWalton: but wait---------you share the LDS site? freeaainnc: exactly AY! Selma: Thats strange free freeaainnc: AY we can, but I rarely do AYWalton: how is that public when it is a church run and church affiliated site? ProfessorDru: OK, nadasue Nadasue: freeaainnc I looked for you when I was at the Archives in June, but they said you had left for the day freeaainnc: AY I don't know. I don't understand it and she hasn't explained satisfactorily AYWalton: if you can share a church site---you surely can share a free site. freeaainnc: Nada so sorry I missed you. Sounds like it was a Friday and I only work from 730-1130 on friday AYWalton: I would think that is a violation of their policy as well. alt: free, actually I'm surprised that you are even allowed to 'comment' on what you find in the records with clients/customers. freeaainnc: AY we can only share the LDS site when we suggest they look up a record at a family history center if they live out of state Nadasue: freeaainnc I don't remember what day of the week it was, but it was my fault. I only had a few hours so I dug right into the work. I didn't ask for you until the end of the day freeaainnc: nada! I probably saw you then and just didn't know it was you! Selma: Free..can't you just say, that you found a family that appears to be theirs based on the information provided, except for the surname and ask them what they think? freeaainnc: alt - how do you mean? Nadasue: freeaainnc: Selma yeah, I guess that is what I'll have to do if boss won't change her mind alt: are y'all doing the research and reporting your findings to the 'client'... is this a service of your organization? Selma: I am assuming that the names of the folks in the family in 1870..match up with later data.. Oops..someone at the door freeaainnc: alt we have policies of what we will and won't do. basically we will look through indexed books (up to 5) per request. in this case, she mentioned 1910-1930 census record and I wanted to see what she was looking at and was able to go back to 1870 with the family alt: so you've found more than what they asking about???? freeaainnc: yes Selma, 1880 has mother Sallie and children Rena and son Sandy. 1870 as Cameron has mother Sarah with daughter Rena and son Sandy living in same town and ages right 3rdthawkins: I say give them what they ask freeaainnc: well, what they were asking for was help finding Sallie Peaks parents. I found Rena but no father yet 3rdthawkins: but there's nothing wrong with giving them more, the library in south carolina does that ProfessorDru: Gotta run, gang. alt: so you do research for folks as well as your 'other' duties? AYWalton: have to run, folks! freeaainnc: it's not research really, kinda more like lookups, but when they don't give full citations of what they've found, then I try to retrace their steps alt: okay, I see Nadasue: Nice seeing all of you again. HOpe to be back soon before I return to work. freeaainnc: and since she was using census records 1910-1930 and not earlier, I just wanted to see if I could find them earlier, which I did alt: then I think the tricky part is.... should you try to 'explain' what you've found or just point them to what you've found.... my option would be to direct them to the additional records you''ve located and not explain anything. freeaainnc: but that is part of what we do too is to teach them and not just do a straight lookup alt: what are you teaching? research techniques or how to 'interpret' what you're fining? freeaainnc: in this case I want to explain to her why the name could have changed like that with 1870 census 3rdthawkins: I'm thinking, if you were black, it may be a different situation with the boss....just a thought alt: is she aware of the name change? if so refer her to a book on surnames and how/why they may change over generations. Let the book explain the possibilities. freeaainnc: ok alt: Gutman .. is great with with surnaming patterns. freeaainnc: ok vicky: I bet the boss will tell you to only give what she asked for especially if it is an online request alt: that's just my opinion. freeaainnc .. that & a couple of bucks will get you some coffee at Starbucks what do y'all think of all of the changes vkn has in the works for AfriGeneas? I wanted to ask her about them, but she left so abruptly. freeaainnc: what is the first name alt? Selma: So she had already found these folks from 1910 to 1930 alt: Herbert 3rdthawkins: think it's great alt freeaainnc: vicky it's the boss who has alway s said we must teach them to do for themselves right selma Selma: Well then...I really don't see the issue alt: what and which one 3rdthawkins? freeaainnc: alt I haven't really seen what all the changes are 3rdthawkins: chats (though not sure about the length of it), topics that will be discussed, up dating beginner's guide (not sure of all of things she has in store) the community center freeaainnc: is there a place on afrigeneas that outlines them? oh, well if that is all the changes, then I have heard of them 3rdthawkins: not sure of all the things being changed, but those are the ones I know for sure alt: discussions are/wil be great... not sure they will work in the regular chat sessions.. too much traffic. freeaainnc: I'm not crazy with the changes in the chat or how she handles the topics every time (sometimes feel like reaching for a topic) - I think maybe topics should be decided before hand right alt, that is what I mean alt: I;m wondering if they will be set up like "Webinar's" 3rdthawkins: right alt, unless there's a notification days before the the scheduled chat to everyone freeaainnc: updating beginners guide would be great and move it to resources speaking of changes with the chat room, I think this one closes in 5 minutes and lobby will close to Spivey and I were a bit upset on Saturday how after it kicked us out of the satnitechat room, it also kicked us out of the lobby! alt: yes, beginner's guide could be updated to speak more of online genealogy and the increased useage of online archival data. freeaainnc: had no where to finish chat right alt, I agree Selma: Got to run folks..have a great day alt: guess i'll skedaddle too... laters y'all vicky: ok folks see ya 3rdthawkins: yeah, before it closes me out, cee ya freeaainnc: ok, bye I want to see if it kicks me out of the lobby again like before vicky: well free dont forget to report tomorrow on your convo byeeeee freeaainnc: wow, not kicked out yet! |
I don't fully understand that rule though, but apparently sites like afrigeneas are considered "private" and we are only allowed to share "public" sites - LDS, NARA, state Archives, other libraries - with patrons by email, but I always make sure to tell them about afrigeneas when I help in person