AfriGeneas Saturday Night DNA Chat Log - 26 Apr 2003


Chatters 9

21:09:17 :Art :Hi vkn...just posted "browse" instructions to the forum

21:09:48 :vkn :I saw those but no time to practice as yet Art

21:10:07 :Art :sounds worse than it is :)

21:10:39 :vkn :Found myself sitting there looking at the county screen and kept going around in a circle back to where I started read and tried again and nothing

21:11:16 :Art :I see, just needed to add location city, township, etc.

21:12:13 :vkn :I put in GA as state and doughtery as county and that is as far as I could get

21:12:33 :rcs :hello all

21:12:57 :vkn :Art is trying to part some knowledge to the old grey mare lol

21:13:51 :Art :I went to a birthday party today...a friend's mother celebrated her 90th b'day...saw peopl I hadn't seen in 40+ years...her sons came home from Oakland CA & Portland It was great.

21:14:38 :vkn :Wow Art what a celebration that must have been Is the 90 years old up and about Art?

21:15:47 :Art :Yes, vkn looked in better shape than me :)

21:19:03 :vkn :Art I think I mentioned that I have 300 new funeral records from the Lucius compny and I think I see a relative of your kids It is Ceola Embry is that one of your names?

21:19:48 :Art :If Embry's or Hall yoy can bet on it. Yep

21:20:25 :vkn :
Ceola Embry
died at age 24
born May 1910
Lincoln AL
Father is Walker Curry
Mother is Lelia Orr
died 14 Apr 1937
married to Wyatt Embry
Buried at Lincoln cemetery
End of story

21:23:10 :Art :Yep, Wyatt Embry was part of the "clan"

21:24:55 :vkn :I see for HALL Alberta, Emma and Zana. Will post that info later to obits page

21:25:09 :Art :Embry, Hall, Turner, Davis are all connected somehow. Okay Wood/Woods also

21:26:04 :vkn :A lady purchased the building previously owned by the Lucius funeral home and found this book with 300 records

21:26:20 :Art :What good fortune

21:26:30 :vkn :brought them to Anniston Library where I volunteer So we made a bound copy for use and I of course have a copy for Afrigeneas

21:28:36 :rcs :slow and steady wins the race....all th epeople who are going to figure out everything in three weeks are a trip

21:28:56 :vkn :Howdy Lynda. So glad to see ya

21:30:08 :rcs :I was just contacted last week by people responding to a query I posted over 6 months ago....and I was supposed to get my information to them asap

21:31:55 :vkn :There is a post now on beginners

21:32:16 :vkn :where person is trying to begin with great grandfather

21:33:19 :Art :that seems to be the trend vkn

21:33:25 :vkn :I responded with an assignment to complete and get back to us. Not sure if it will work or not.

21:33:48 :lyndam :At least it was on the beginners' board :)

21:34:13 :vkn :Not sure how much we help by just giving answers

21:34:22 :Art :good point lyndam....

21:34:22 :vkn :True Lynda

21:34:32 :vkn :ET Howdy

21:36:13 :Art :I think Denise has the right idea on "look-ups"....if she finds a "look-up" she tells them where it is Series, Roll # & page #...if they're really interested they will get it..if not nothing lost

21:36:36 :rcs :I have been doing less

21:36:52 :Art :Yep, I've noticed

21:36:56 :rcs :and only when there is enough info to make an ID likely But we've been busy at work too...cuts into internet time

21:37:44 :Art :It hurts when you give them something and they say " I have that"

21:38:05 :rcs :or they say "no, that's not the one"

21:38:21 :Art :makes me want to say ^&)(*%$$:)

21:38:21 :rcs :but no details to help out

21:38:23 :lyndam :Or ... His name was STEVEN, not STEPHEN!!

21:40:36 :Art :Hello Shell

21:42:50 :Shell_ :Is there a special topic this evening?

21:43:52 :ET :Not that I'm aware of...was supposed to touch on DNA...but, do you have a subject?

21:44:42 :Shell_ :No not really. I am still trying to understand the DNA, It's a little confusing to me.

21:45:04 :rcs :we're all trying just to stay awake waiting for you to excite us

21:45:56 :Shell_ :I need to try to stay awake myself .

21:47:18 :Art :DNA appears to be somethiing of a "money-maker" need to research agency and type of testing they are doing.

21:48:12 :ET :At this point, DNA testing can't give me the type of answers I'm looking for.

21:48:55 :Denise :Hiya folks! What's tonites topic?

21:50:09 :vkn :Well DNA? I saw a post about it today and invited the poster BUT he says he was not available tonight Not sure what his point was did anyone else read it?

21:51:44 :Art :Saw that post...he made a lot of sense to me. first check out testin agency...lot of "stuff" out there

21:51:47 :Denise :which forum?

21:53:25 :Art :He was kind of down on African geneolgy (?) Not a large enough test bed for comparisons

21:53:55 :lyndam :So I'm still open to DNA - but haven't reached the point where there are (other) willing subjects :)

21:54:20 :vkn :Art that was the drift I got on the first read Did not take a second look

21:54:47 :Denise :I agree with him on the number of genetic markers

21:55:04 :Art :One company is asking about 450 per test..mitachondrial and/or Y-chromosme

21:55:27 :vkn :Well Denise from the one drop theory it does not require many markers lol

21:56:05 :Denise :true - but even within the African continent you have a very wide kline

21:56:43 :vkn :I am sure that is true. My DNA knowledge is zilch

21:57:01 :Denise :and since AA's were "made in the USA" it also might help identify family stories re relationships to slave masters etc

21:57:02 :vkn :All I know I learned via OJ

21:57:04 :lyndam :Mine too - don't you need a larger 'database'

21:57:05 :Art :Yeah, but DNA doesn't determine race (whatever that is ) does it?

21:57:26 :lyndam :lol at vkn

21:57:55 :ET :Supposedly, DNA established that their is only one race...the human race.

21:57:56 :Denise :no - it identifies alleles - genetic markers which are more or less concentrated over areas

21:58:38 :Art :Yep..Thomas Jefferson & the Hemmings thing did not even touch race

21:58:49 :Denise :there are variences within populations - I prefer that term rather than "race" which is socially

21:59:38 :vkn :Art Sally was probably so Octurooned that African was barely there, one drop not withstanding.

22:00:19 :Shell_H :In terms of genealogy what is the real purpose for it. To give validity to our research or to expand it?

22:01:00 :rcs :Right now the main purpose seems still to be to make money for the companies

22:01:11 :ET :I don't think that there is a 'real' purpose, Shell_H, except, of course, to make money.

22:01:11 :Art :exactly rcs and ET

22:01:25 :vkn :I am not sure Shell except that it is touted to be infallible

22:01:35 :rcs :unless there is an individual of "questionable" paternity and you want to be sure that they are a cousin and check current people]

22:01:56 :Shell_H :would it have made a difference in Alex Haley's research?

22:02:11 :vkn :RCS I would tend to agree re the paternity bit

22:02:44 :rcs :the whole "ancestral origin" reminds me of a "high tech" versin of the send me your name and I'll send you your coat of arms silliness

22:02:50 :Art :I don't think so..what did his research prove..his oral traditions, perhaps

22:03:09 :ET :BINGO!!!! rcs

22:03:35 :vkn :and that he can really weave a story of historical events. as most of us can and do.

22:04:15 :CAK :and will do in the future

22:04:58 :Art :ET. as Les might say DNA....compared to what!!

22:05:32 :vkn :Makes his work no less significant for the impact ut had on us all as a people and as genealogists.

22:05:40 :Denise :all genetic research is not "just to make money" - it is important bio-medically

22:05:56 :vkn :True Denise

22:05:59 :rcs :as a general trend, yes

22:06:08 :ET :Agreed, Denise...That's not what we meant.

22:06:22 :rcs :but on a genealogical level, i remain skeptical

22:07:09 :Shell_H :I just wonder between the internet and DNA will genealogy research continue to be what it is today,

22:07:34 :vkn :I am in the middle of the road on the value. I do find it far fetched from an economical standpoint.

22:07:34 :Denise :I think it is useful genealogically too - with limitations

22:07:47 :CAK :Shell, there will always be a need to check original sources

22:08:12 :Shell_H :that's true.

22:08:21 :Art :For the Y-chromosome test don't you need to match against a "suspected" male ancestor in your direct line?

22:08:39 :vkn :CAK I smile as I read the thread this week about the "truth" in death records.

22:08:40 :rcs :to check/verify among possible cousins, I would agree

22:09:46 :vkn :And Art what about the adoptee who is without knowledge of the biological line.

22:10:36 :Art :I think that would be a "waste" vkn

22:11:11 :rcs :it could help verify a likely identified birth family

22:11:20 :Denise :yes

22:11:38 :vkn :Well I will follow the DNA approach closely at a distance lol

22:11:55 :Art :If there was a test bed of potential parents to match against, right?

22:12:10 :Denise :how many posts do we have archived where folks speak of being descended from a slave owner? Or an overseer?

22:13:08 :Art :right, so you would match against a sample from the owner or overseer not against all white people form england

22:13:12 :CAK :Denise, I don't know how many posts but g grandmother was the daughter of the overseer

22:13:15 :Denise :right

22:13:17 :rcs :back to Sally Hemming and family

22:13:23 :vkn :I trust what you beautiful people tell me and a bit of what I read. No interest to pursue it in my own research. I also would not question the results for those who go that route.

22:14:46 :Denise :actually - the research is quite amusing - especially for those folks wh harp about their "purity" and then find out (no surprise to us) that there is no such thing it all boils down to being human - mixed

22:15:22 :ET :vkn it appears that Art is trying to establish that for geneaolgy purposes, one needs a representative ancestor to get any really useful information...otherwise the results only show 'group' possiblities.

22:15:37 :vkn :i see I understand.

22:15:50 :Art :right ET

22:16:44 :rcs :And we can look at 2/3 of the AA in America and say Gee, they got some European and some African ancesters

22:16:58 :Denise :well - it can narroe down potentials - for example - if you showed Tay-sachs - you might have an Eastern european Jewish ancestor

22:17:21 :Denise :excuse my typing - can't find my glasses

22:18:09 :vkn :and so what if sickle cell shows in other groups, denise?

22:18:50 :Doll :hello all!

22:18:52 :rcs :yes indeed....back to the purity fallacy

22:19:14 :Art :excuse me does in Mediterrains they call it Thallisemia

22:19:42 :Denise :vkn - cell sickling only indicates an ancestor came form a malarial area - of which there are many - not just Africa

22:20:10 :Doll :I have thallasemia

22:20:36 :vkn :Oh really Doll? How is it evidenced?

22:20:39 :Art :Really Doll?

22:20:59 :Doll :i have it in a mild form--trait i found out after I had my first born I had a sickle cell crisis

22:22:59 :ET sickle cell and thallasemia the same disease, or related diseases?

22:23:30 :Art :I'll defer to Doll

22:23:32 :Doll :As far as I know it is sickle cell related It comes in the form of minor and major i wear glasses because of this my eye vessels hemorraghed some years ago

22:25:02 :Denise :the trait has also been found in those with Middle Eastern, Indian, Latin American, Native American, and Mediterranean heritage

22:25:15 :Doll :yes--Denise--because of mixed marriages

22:25:18 :Art :From a "racial" postion ET...Blacks or AA's can have either, but you don't hear of "whites" having sickle I understand it.

22:25:51 :Doll :My hemotologist told me some years ago that some of my relatives were probably from northern africa because of this condition

22:26:05 :vkn :Art It may not even be looked at to rule out in the non Black

22:27:17 :Denise :Asians have a sickling trait - the biologists I work with expalin it as simply a survival adaptation to malarial regions so did my Greek neighbor

22:27:37 :vkn :Denise we look to you, the anthropologist, to help us embrace all of the possibilities.

22:27:48 :Doll :most people who have sickle cell are immune from malaria

22:27:51 :ET :Well, I heard (recently) that the 'sickling' of the blood is some form of 'protective' occurence in folks who live in regions where there is Malaria (as Denise said earlier).

22:27:56 :Denise :I'm not a biologiacla anthropologist

22:28:06 :Art :Just a thought Doll....why not Italy or Sicily or Greece?

22:28:41 :Doll :as far as?

22:29:00 :Art :limiting your ancestry to North Africa your hematologist

22:29:41 :Doll :This type of SC is more predominant in this area

22:29:49 :Art :I see

22:31:02 :Doll :in early Africa it was called the "pain disease"

22:31:53 :Art :Denise, isn't Sickle Cell chracteristic of what is called a sex-linked trait?

22:32:34 :Denise :don't think so Art

22:32:39 :Art :okay

22:33:01 :Doll :it can be passed by either parent - non sex linked

22:33:10 :Denise :is a recessive unless inherited from both parents

22:33:41 :Doll :true!

22:33:22 :Art :i thought it was like hemophilia

22:33:48 :ET :Agreed.

22:34:24 :Denise :But it takes two copies of the mutant gene, one from each parent, to give someone the full-blown disease

22:34:25 :Doll :Thank the Black Panthers for this testing for pre-marital Blacks

22:34:45 :Denise :yes - we were all tested in the BPP

22:35:12 :Art :and color-blindness...ever seen a color blind female?

22:35:12 :Doll :Didn't know you a part of this group! Kudos!!

22:35:26 :Denise :yup - lol

22:35:51 :vkn :Radical lol

22:35:54 :CAK :Art, not a totally color blind female but one that had problems with one color

22:36:08 :Art :really CAK?

22:36:28 :CAK :Yes, can't remember the color

22:36:47 :Doll :green? or is that males

22:37:02 :CAK :It was either green or red

22:37:42 :ET :Was that the excuse they gave in traffic court?? lol

22:38:13 :CAK :No, they found the problem existed in her in grade school

22:38:14 :Art :Remember the books used for color blind, red-green, etc.

22:39:24 :ET :I was never tested for color-blindness until I went into the military.

22:39:28 :CAK :I did have a male teacher that was totally color blind

22:39:37 :Denise :"More than 95 percent of all variations in human color vision involve the red and green receptors in men's eyes"

22:40:04 :CAK :Found out he drove be watching to see which one of the circles was brighter on traffic lights

22:40:21 :Doll :I knew there was something wrong with them:)

22:40:25 :Denise :Some 10 million American men—fully 7 percent of the male population—either cannot distinguish red from green, or see red and green differently from most people

22:40:51 :Denise :interesting webpage on color blindness

22:41:10 :Denise :

22:41:18 :ET :(I knew Denise was researching as we speak!) ;)

22:42:28 :Denise :Here's a page to check color blindness

22:42:29 :ET :Again...And for AfriGeneas research librarian, I nominate... lol

22:42:32 :Denise :

22:42:51 :Denise :heheheh ET - NO

22:43:00 :ET ::(

22:43:13 :Art :Do you need a second ET

22:41:48 :vkn :ET she does it all the time lol

22:42:22 :vkn :Shell what is new with you?

22:43:17 :Shell_H :Not much. Just excited about meeting the cousin. I am trying to organize mounds of papers so that they will make sense.

22:43:36 :vkn :Tell us more Shell

22:43:57 :Denise :I hear ya Shell

22:44:29 :vkn :Shell you said you found a cousin who has the same ancestral family lore as you?

22:44:42 :Shell_H :Well I have folders full of letters and research that I did but I didn't organize them well. I am starting to appreciate research notes more. Yes. I new of him but I had never asked him how we were related. We are connected but he had the same oral history passed down in his family.

22:45:35 :vkn :( you are not alone in that, Shell)

22:45:48 :Denise :I need more hours in the day to organize - sigh

22:47:00 :Shell_H :I now have to go back and do all the census records with his surname to find the connection.

22:47:09 :vkn :Shell how does his story differ from yours?

22:47:31 :Denise :what surname Shell?

22:48:16 :Shell_H :He said that his grandmother was over 6 feet tall and that her father was African. Her surname was Jenkins.

22:48:34 :Denise :interesting

22:48:47 :Shell_H :He also was told the story about the Watutsi and the name change as a child. His grandmother was also from the same city as my ancestor. He remembered going there as a child. He doesn't know any names that would help me except the surname and all of his people are dead.

22:51:16 :vkn :Incidentally Shell I search a tiny leaf on my BELL-BENHAM tree in Talapoosa County AL for WARE-SUDDERS

22:52:12 :Shell_H :I am having alot of trouble with the census records. No one is where they are supposed to be there.

22:52:47 :Denise :perhaps they are mis-spelled

22:53:11 :Doll :what area are you researching Shell?

22:53:41 :Shell_H :Tallapoosa county, Alabama on my maternal side, Dallas county on my dad'a

22:54:14 :Denise :post the one's you can't find Shell

22:54:31 :Doll :Denise can find them I'm sure!!!

22:54:59 :Shell_H :I have with no luck yet.

22:56:20 :Denise :which census is giving you trouble?

22:56:29 :Art :Shell, go to Heirtage Quest Census for 1860 & 1870...I did a search for alabama and folks born in Africa 1860 had 2...1870 had 187 with 3 in Tallapoosa County. surname of Connie, Crayton & Rev???

22:57:46 :Shell_H :My dad's side is a whole new story. I only found one family with their surname in the whole county.

22:57:57 :Denise :which surname?

22:58:07 :Shell_H :Binion

23:01:57 :vkn :Shell great pointers from Art Tell us next week what you find on follow up ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

23:04:31 :vkn :Lynda are you ready to tell us a bit about what you will be doing in May? Doing as far as chat goes

23:05:48 :lyndam :I have a couple of 'guest' lined up for Chat sessions in May

23:06:22 :Denise :what night?

23:06:42 :lyndam :Looking...Preliminary: Wednesday, May 14? Audrey Westerman will be speaking on South Louisiana research In June, Judy Riffel of La Raconteur - genealogical society will speak on AA Beginning research - and Resources She teaches and is a volunteer at the Louisiana State Archives - "Friends of the Archives" Has been teaching = and helping AA's with their Louisiana research Using Public records - got many back to 'Africa' I'm hoping to get a few more lined up for June and July

244 :vkn :That is super great Lynda We will listen to hear more and we will wait on you to tell us when to get the promo out

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AfriGeneas ~ African Ancestored Genealogy