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2014-06-16 • Joyce Ann Gaines ~ barbering


Start: 12:05:43
End: 13:24:52
Chatters: alt, D N Holford, daviss, Selma, vkn

vkn: Howdy Holford

D N Holford: Hello!!! So happy to be here!

daviss: hello D N Holford!

vkn: Holford is a "newby"

D N Holford: Yup!

daviss: aha Newby from where D N

vkn: And she has a neat project she would like AfriGeneas to support

D N Holford: San Jose, CA

vkn: The Silicon Valley I just spoke with her by phone D N Holford is a 56 yr old college student Focus is on Black barbering

daviss: That's exciting, very nice D N is Barbering what the project entails?

D N Holford: I'm a transplant, born in Brooklyn, raised between there and Western South Carolina; then moved to Atlanta as they built the MARTA system.

daviss: Is Marta like a bus system?

vkn: Indeed it is Daviss

D N Holford: No, but the woman we are highlighting come from a rich history of barbering as well as my ancestors.

vkn: D N Holford my mother was a Cosmetologist and educator

D N Holford: Wow! It always amazes me how life keeps us connected to our roots. I'm a HORRIBLE typer, please forgive and thank God for spellcheck.

daviss: me too DN Holford, every day something shows its self

vkn: D N Holford once known as a hairdresser then a beautician lol lastly a cosmetologist lol but always teacher

daviss: lol vkn thats right

vkn: Welcome to the "worst typist" club

D N Holford: My grandmother graduated from Tuskegee in 1924 with three degrees, teaching, nursing and cosmetology.

vkn: Well now my mother and one sister graduated Tuskegee

daviss: I have no one that I know of

vkn: Many of my King ancestors matriculated Tuskegee

daviss: perhaps they knew each other

vkn: You will find someone daviss D N Holford did your grandmother practice all three skills

D N Holford: Interesting! G W Carver (and his wife) did fascinating work here at Yosemite. Yes she did for the sake of Blacks in our little town. I attended grade school there a couple of years; my third grade teacher was taught to read as a child by my grandmother. She nursed the sick, keep everyone's hair done and taught people how to read and math.

vkn: One stop shop lol

D N Holford: She was the first Black woman to have a drivers license in the county from what I hear.

vkn: Aha Never knew Dr Carver had a wife!

D N Holford: Forgive me I'm thinking of Booker T Washington.

vkn: Whew and thanx for the Carver correction Daviss how you be proud?

D N Holford: Hahaha!!! I love it!

daviss: that was strange

D N Holford: *cloning

daviss: I guess!

vkn: Well daviss with you ALL things be possible lol

D N Holford: lol

daviss: lol lol I blame Mariah for doing that

vkn: lol lol lol

daviss: D N Holford Mariah is my elusive one that I can't find and I blame her for all my woes lol

vkn: Mariah, Mariah, come out from wherever you are hiding and defend your self

daviss: hahahahaha

D N Holford: I see, I have imaginary friends too. We don't fight as much lately....

vkn: Mariah is for real D N Holford we just cannot find her

D N Holford: Oh.

daviss: lol I was going to say that your grandmother must be an amazing lady and I think she got jealous lol lol

vkn: Go Mariah lol

D N Holford: Ahhhhh........

vkn: So have you fully researched your family, D N Holford ?

D N Holford: She passed in 1978, before I had sense enough to document the story. I plan to though now that I have a few skills. Genealogy is NOT one of my strong points. :(

daviss: Good for you. It should be an exciting journey

vkn: and how might we/AfriGeneas help with your project? Some of our regular chatters have not made it in today but they will read the log My calendar is telling me that today is birthday for Shelley Murphy

daviss: yes it is vkn!

vkn: Guess Selma got kicked

D N Holford: We are interested in tying her family's history to the 1921 Tulsa riots. We were told that 3 of her relatives were killed or hurt. We want to know where the family land was located and some of Joyce's genealogy, how much is tied to Native Americans. And lastly, the history of barbering in the Black community. We are releasing the film in 2015, the 50th anniversary.

alt: Hello All

vkn: Alt hello to you

daviss: hi alt!

D N Holford: Greetings alt!

vkn: Alt, Holford is researching Black folk in barbering industry

daviss: How long have you worked on the project?

D N Holford: Yup!

vkn: Barber shops same as Country Clubs for the other peeps

alt: yep, a long kin of barbers & "hairdressers" in my family lines.... barbering goes back to the 1840's in Ohio, Mich, Iowa & California that I have traced to this point.

Selma: Good afternoon everyone

D N Holford: @daviss We started production in 2011, we are "self funded" and more than halfway completed. We wrap up by September and take it to post. Greetings Selma

vkn: Whew Selma tough entry

Selma: I downloaded something to my laptop and it is acting to get the whiz kid next door There is quite a bit of information on Tulsa Riots..couple of books..

D N Holford: We have re-enactments scenes to complete.

Selma: Didn't someone just post a new book that came out on African American Barbers?

vkn: Not remembering if they did Selma but you know books better than most of us

Selma: Are you researching a specific person in that area Holford

D N Holford: Yes, we're aware of the general info out there. We need specific info on her family. I wish I could do it, currently I'm a full time (double major & honors program) student, my husband and I run a production company shooting and editing for a select group of clients. We have two children in college as well. Yes, Selma, the woman in our film.

Selma: Jeez..2 kids in college and you too..I commend you

vkn: Commend again

Selma: What is the person's name Holford..have you found her in the records and other documents I came in late..sorry

D N Holford: Joyce Ann Gaines, but I believe the search should begin with her mom and dad. Walter Gaines and Odessa Cox, somewhere around Greenwood, OK.

vkn: Alt mentioned barbering in his family and hairdressing as well. I also have a somewhat similar history of hair dressing

Selma: Do you have an approximate date of birth for them Holford?

alt: some of my hairdressing women were trained in Pittsburgh, PA at some well-known school for “hairdressers”.

D N Holford: Please stand by, be right back!

vkn: There was PORO

alt: that's it vkn!!!!

vkn: and APEX

alt: PORO

vkn: ok

alt: this was like in the 1920's and/or earlier (????)

vkn: PORO came out of St Louis

Selma: Right alt.. LOL So Holford..give us some "dates" and locations for these folks you mentioned above...Walter, Joyce I see a Walter and Odessa in CA in 1940..he is said to have been born in Oklahoma in 1909

D N Holford: Okay......Joyce, born in Sacramento, ca she's 78. Walter and Odessa were born in Oklahoma. This happened quickly and I don't have my research in front of me. I can type it later or join Wends chat if that works? Wow!!! You're GOOD Selma!!!

Selma: We are all good..we have been doing this a long time..and we have no life.. LOL

vkn: We agree wid u D N Holford Selma is a good one This is life lol

Selma: It appears that his name is Z D Walter Gaines..he and Odessa have 3 children.. Barbara, Walter and Helen

D N Holford: They have a rich history in Stockton, Ca, Sacramento and Los Angeles. They opened 5 barbershops, own orchards and other businesses. You all can view our "lack of life" at our photography page:

vkn: Electra prolly has knowledge Will look after chat D N Holford and yes one or some of us will be here Wednesday

Selma: Barbara is 5 years old and said to have been born in Oklahoma..the boy Walter is 3 and said to have been born in they were in CA by 1936-1937

vkn: You can also tell us more with a post at

D N Holford: Wow!!! We desperately need this kind of support for the film and its now time sensitive. I don't have money right now, but am more than willing to give FULL credits in the film. Certainly you can expect cash gratuities once we begin another fundraising event in the fall. My direct numbers are 408.300.0618 (home) and 408.509.6773 (cell)

Selma: 1940 also says they were living in Cresent, Logan County, Oklahoma in 1935

daviss: happy hunting alt!

alt: ty daviss

vkn: Is this a new dig alt

alt: no vkn.. an attempt to confirm and add to "old" information.

vkn: Gotcha!

Selma: Actually it says the wife was in OK.. I gotta run folks...

alt: laters Selma

vkn: Bye for now Selma

D N Holford: Yes, Selma, they came as a part of the grapes of wrath, hobo'ed their way here; a very touching story. We have a vintage train outfit that is willing to roll a 1930's train while we shoot scenes. I just scouted another location in the Santa Clara County Open Space preserve where my husband Leonard and I are are the "first" Black Docents.

vkn: Sounds like progress

alt: wonderful D N Holford !!!!

vkn: Tell us more on the forum boards

D N Holford: Thank you all, it's overwhelming at times.

daviss: I will look forward to your post on the Genealogy and History Forum

D N Holford: I'm crying.

vkn: Glad you came by D N Holford we look to hear more and continue the convo, tears and all!!!

D N Holford: Peace

daviss: time for me to cruise the forum boards DN Holford. Take all care bye

18 Dec 2002 :: 1 Feb 2009
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