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7:54:58 PM Opening "Slaves 5/19/98"
Online Host:
EdwardBall: has entered the room.
EdwardBall: GFS Angela? I'm here.
GFS Angela: yes you made it!!!!
EdwardBall: Evening to everyone.
GFS Angela:
One Minute To Curtain Time.
:Good Evening Everyone!!!!
WELCOME to a very special evening that we have planned!
This evening we are most fortunate to have a nationally known visitor to our
meeting..........Mr Edward Ball who is author Of the pivotal work
"slaves in the family." before he begins i wish to thank all
of you for coming and showing your interest and support.
Many thanks to our leader and Dr. Valencia King Nelson who is the mentor
of most of us here online and a special welcome to our guest Mr Edward Ball.
EdwardBall:
Thanks, Angela.
GFS Angela:
To Introduce Our Speaker This Evening.....
The Leader Of The Genealogy Forum
George Ferguson Is Here.(GFL George)
Who Will Introduce Our Speaker To You.
Gfs Angela: Let Us Give Him Our Attention At This Time
GFL George:
Thank You Angela
GFL George:
I would like to welcome you all to the African American SIG
in the Golden Gate Genealogy Forum on America Online.
GFL George:
We are pleased this evening to welcome Mr. Edward Ball
author of the book, "Slaves in the Family". Edward Ball opens his
book with an old family joke. "There are five thing we don't talk
about in the Ball family," his father would say. "Religion, sex,
death, money, and the Negroes." The Ball family of the low country
of South Carolina made its money growing rice on more than 20
plantations. The Balls enslaved almost 4,000 Blacks between 1698 and 1865.
GFL George:
Mr. Ball is a former Village Voice columnist and a descendant of
one of the South's largest slaveholding families. He has chosen to open
the doors to this terrible family past, and feels compelled to come to
terms with the plantation past. He has researched thousands of documents.
He has interviewed family and descendants of former slaves in the United
States, and has interviewed descendants of slave traders in Africa. His
book paints a fascinating and compelling portrait of one family's history
and the lives of the many that they enslaved.
We in the Genealogy Forum are very proud and honored to present to
you Mr Edward Ball, Mr. Ball...!
EdwardBall:
Thanks, George.
EdwardBall:
I began Slaves in theFamily in 1994, after attending a family reunion
in South Carolina.I had been living in New York,working as a print journalist.
When I was a child, my father used to tell me stories about the plantations
once owned by our ancestors.
The first member of the family got into plantation slavery in 1698,
and the last got out when stragglers from Sherman's Army arrived on
the lawns of the plantations to force emancipation. As George said,
between those two dates, the Balls enslaved close to 4,000 Africans
and African Americans. My calculation is that the descendants of those
workers numbhe black and
white famlies who lived on the Balls' rice plantations, and part journalism
tell the story of my attempt to find and my meetings with, descendants of
"Ball slaves." George, do you want to start with a question?**
GFS Angela:
Mr. Ball, we will have questions asked first by one of our
staffers..... GFSMarol.....Marol, the floor is yours..
.
GFS Marol:
What were the primary motivations, for you, in beginning
the search for "Slaves in the Family"?
EdwardBall:
(I'll Go Into Caps For Easier Reading.)
I Was Born In Savannah, Ga, And Raised In Louisiana, Florida, And South
Carolina. Although As A Family We All Knew About The Ball Plantations,
What We Knew Most About Were "Us"--The People In The Big Houses.
My Father Never Said Much About The Slaves. Theirs Was An Untold Story.
I Wanted To Put Their Lives On An Equal Footing With The Lives Of The
Whites, To Learn About What They Overcame, What They Laughed At, Wore,
How They Worked, Loved, Worshiped. i Wanted To Tell A Black And White
Story--Not A Black Story, Not A White One, But A Shared Tale.**
GFS Marol:
Will you provide a brief summary of your findings?
EdwardBall:
I Found That The Descendants Of The Last Generation Of People Enslaved
By The Balls, Based On Normal Rates Of Increase, Migration, And Other
Variables, Number, As I Said, Between 75,000 And 100,000 People.
about Half The Families Remain In The South, Half Live Elsewhere. Most
Of Those Who Left Did So After 1920, And Especially After 1945. From SC
.they Went North Along The East Coast.
EdwardBall:
I've Met With About 100 People Whose Ancestors Lived On Ball Plantations.
they Are The People I Wrote About. They Belong To About Fifteen Famlies.
They're Middle Class, They're Wage Workers, They're Educated, Illiterate,
Light-skinned, Dark, Christian, Atheist--They Are A Cross Section Of Black
Americans. While On A 25-City Book Tour In February And March, i Met More
People, And Others Continue To Contact Me.**
GFS Marol:
What were any personal and/or institutional barriers in researching
and documenting your findings?
EdwardBall
:I had to overcome my own fear.
There were,I think, about 350,000 slave owners at the start of
The civil war. Their descendants number in the tens of millions, and
we all know who we are. But we guard the legacy carefully, and don't
Speak freely about it. The descendants of slave owners are afraid of being
scapegoated. Getting over a nameless fear was a personal obstacle, but
It was also a reason to do the work.in addition, gaining the trust
of black families--that is, getting over their suspicion and fear: i wouldn't
call that an obstacle so much as a reason to go ahead.
,to have catharsis, to try to get further understanding, to release
some of the poisons left in the wound, to get relief--all of which came after
we got over our fear of one another.**
GFS Marol:
In your book, you spoke of some opposition of familymembers to
your researching and writing the book. Since the book's publication
have there been any changes in their feelings toward your work and
having written the book?
EdwardBall:
I'd say the family has taken a hard blow from this book, and is recovering
from the shock, but is becoming stronger from it, more able to talk about
the hard stuff. A few familiy members offered support when i began work
on the book; now that it's done, many more have stepped forward to put their
approval behind it.there is some gossip that "cousin ed" dwelled on the bad
parts--the violence, the black and white sex, the enslavement of children.
And a small group are focused on One or two details about people they knew,
and say it got things wrong. Mainly they're hurt that i didn't kiss the feet
of our ancestors, but depicted them as i found them in their papers and
account books. The Book has certainly given us all something to talk about.**
GFS Marol:
Considering the opposition of family, and the difficulty of the task, what
was the catalyst which made you actually start to begin the book?
EdwardBall:
It happened in the aftermath of a family reunion a few years
ago. As i mentioned, i was living in new york and decided to attend
this event after many years away from charleston. Once there,
the stories we told each other--about our ancestors' funny manners,
their wigs, their loves and hijinks--these were quaint southern stories that left
most of life out of the picture. I thought it was necessary, that's all.
About time, i thought, that someone from a family like
my own came forward with a straight story about plantation life.**
GFS Marol:
Many of us saw you on Oprah when you extended an apology to Katie Roper.
Are you of the belief that the U.S. should apologize to African Americans
for slavery, as has been discussed in recent years?
EdwardBall:
I think that ultimately there should be an apology, but
not right now, because it would not represent the consensus of american
opinion. It would be false, and would breed resentment among whites.
An apology, to be effective for both blacks and whites, to give something to
Both sides, would need a much better understanding of what slavery
was, and has meant to us, as americans.what would help even more than
an apology, i think, would be some monuments. We need monuments
To the slave trade, to the plantations, to auction houses for people...
Places where people can go and remember, mourn, reflect, and make
pilgrimage. We need a museum of slavery. An institution like hat,
and places of remembrance,might do more.**
GFS Marol:
What benefit do you feel you have today because your ancestors owned slaves?
EdwardBall:
I have not financial capital handed down from the slave days, but I
have much cultural capital. By cultural capital i mean access
to education, housing, and work, freedom of movement, and other
Entitlements--all things that come to white americans automatically,
But black americans have to reach for. The ball family plantations
Collapsed as a business before the year 1900, and the land was
sold cheaply to pay taxes.there was no inheritance that was
passed down; my grandfather and father had none, and i was a scholarship
student who borrowed money from the government for college tuition.
The social advantages of being a member of a family like my own
are dubious. Within the small society like charleston, s.c., there may be
measurable benefits (less so for me, now that i've written this book); but
once you leave the state, it's a subject that cannot be brought up
without risk.**
GFS Marol:
Do you believe that Blacks deserve reparations?
EdwardBall:
There should be discussion of reparations, but i don't know where it would
lead, or should lead.black appeals for reparations deserve a fair hearing,
but the argument faces an uphill drive against majority opinion. The best
we can hope for at this point is for more americans to entertain the
reasons why people are asking for reparations,instead of dismissing the
subject, as it often is done.
I was in Sierra Leonne last year, and the question was put to me many times
by journalists and others there: "will the u.s.pay reparations to africa for
the slave trade?" Few could accept how far this country is from such an act
, and the same goes domestically.**
GFS Marol:
Are Black people better or worse off because of slavery?
EdwardBall:
Worse off, of course, because the purposeful underdevelopment of black
potential during slavery and for a century and more after it ended. But
slavery, also of course, gave the world beautiful music and art,profound
religious traditions,fantastic humor (some of the bestjokes are at the
expense of maussa), black self-reliance,and other traits that it would
be wrong to overlook.**
GFS Marol:
Thank you Mr. Ball. At this time I would like to turn the stage back
over to GFS Angela.
GFS Angela:
Thank you GFSMarol.
Mr. Ball several of our members have forwarded questions to me also to
present to you....I present a few of them here before we open the floor
for questions from the audience.
GFS Angela:
One of our members LBAll, wishes
to know if your research has indicated whether many of the former slaves
kept the surname BALL after they were freed?
EdwardBall:
Maybe one in twenty took the name ball after 1865. The majority
took surnames from ten or twentymiles away. My research Suggests
that, at least in the s.c. Low country, it was unusual
efor black families to adopt the surname of their former owner.**
GFS Angela:
Did you find any pattern or relocating from SC and moving to other states
such as MS or Ohio after becomeing free?
EdwardBall:
The Path Of Migration Was Usually Straight North, To D.C.,
Baltimore, Philadelphia, N.y., Boston. In The 1950s And 1960s People
Began Moving Throughout The Country. I Found No Specific Migration
To Ohio Or Ms.**
GFS Angela:
Another member KGomill asks if the surname Gomillion surfaced
in your research. this was a name prominent around Edgefield
District.
EdwardBall:
No, i'm afraid it did not. 96, of course, is way west of the coastal
rice plantation district. Most of the families i studied stayed,
during slavery, in the same place.**
GFS Angela:
CHY2 asks about the surname MUNN among the former slaves?
EdwardBall:
No, i Don't Recall It. However, If You Get My Book, In One Of The
Last Chapters I List All The Surnames Taken By Former Ball Slaves.
There Were About 130 Of Them.**
GFS Angela:
A few more general questions.....
while on your book tour you indicated that you feel that a new project
might emerge from the reaction of many persons to your book.
Would you please share with ouraudience what shape your
new project is taking and of what it may consist?
EdwardBall:
I Haven't Got News For You On That Score. i Just Stopped
Traveling At The End Of April, And Am Gathering My Thoughts.
Any Ideas From You Would Be Welcome.**
GFS Angela:
Now that your book is out, many persons have made
discoveries about their own families.One of our regular members
here on AOL has been able to add 3 generations to her family
resulting from your research,and has been in contact with you
This situatio might repeat itself many times over the next few
years.If others wish to contact you are you available for ushc contact
from your readers?
EdwardBall:
To Contact Me, It's Best To Write Me A Letter:
Edward Ball,
c/o Farrar, Straus & Giroux,
19 Union Square West,
New York Ny 10003. **
GFS Angela:
At this time we will open the floor to our audience
many of whom have questions that they would
like to ask you directly.
GFS Angela:
We will ask that those with questions for you,please indicate them
with the symbol ?
If you have comment please indicate it
with the symbol !
GFS Angela:
GFSSelma, can you tell us from whom the
first question comes?
GFS Selma: The first question is from EWhack
SADONYA: she left wanted to know if he had any Oakman
EdwardBall:
No Oakman. Tell Her To Have At Look In Chapter 16 Of My Book
For The Surnames.**
AVande7517: ?What documents did you used to get back to
1698 in SC?
Roots N SC: ? When doing your research, did you find any good source
records for slavery in SC?
EdwardBall:
Many Sources, a World Of Them.the Two Or Three Best Places
Are The South Caroliniana Library In Columbia, Sc; The State Archives In
That City; And The S.c. Historical Society In Charleston. Much, Much
Can Be Uncovered About People, Including Biographical Details,
From Close Study Of The Surviving Records.**
Roots N SC: Thank you.
BCraft1608: Do you know of a SC slave holder--Ann Heatly Lovell?
EdwardBall:
No, But There Were Thousands Of Slaveholders, Of Course.**
Mzinga: ?Mr. Ball, do you know what happened to slaves who were
sold (or taken) away from the BALL plantations? Were they sold to
others in the area, sold inland, or sold further south? Also, did any
Balls own plantations elsewhere?
EdwardBall:
That's The Most Difficult And Agonizing Question. Some Were Sold After A
Run-in They Might Have Had With Overseers. Some Were Sold Because A
Playboy Needed Money. Some Were Transferredbetween Ball Plantations.
The Most Common Event Precipitating A Sale Would Be The Death Of A Ball
Patriarch. In 1819 There Was An Auction Of 350 Peoplewhose Destinies
Cannot Be Reconstructed, Although It Is Likely That These Famlies Were
Forced To Walk Across Georgia, Ala., And Mississippi To New Cotton Plantations
There. The Records Of The Slave Buyers And Middlemen Are, At Least In S.c.,
Simply Not Good Enough To Say What Happened To People. Having
,Said That, However, There Was One Case Of A Family Sold By The Balls
To Another Slaveowning Clan, The Manigaults, Who Had A Plantation On T
he Savannah River. Six Or Seven People In That Family, In About 1847, R
an Away From The Manigault Place Twice, And Were Recaptured. They Later
Died, All Of Them, From Some Disease. Good Luck Researching This--It's An
Important Aspect Of The Legacy That Should Be Told.**
Mzinga: Thank you for your insightful answers!
Jawote: ? did slaves take a overseeers name as a surname
EdwardBall:
Interesting. Some Took The Namemcknight, Which Was That Of An Overseer,
But Most Took The Names Of Slaveowning Families Who Didn't Live In The
Neighborhood, Like (In The Case Of The Balls), Simmons, Manigault,
Cordes, Gadsden, Vanderhorst, Etc.**
DrCRG1: ?Edward, how are you most changed by this endeavor?
EdwardBall:
I've Released Fear.**
PercyPC: ?I appreciate the resistance you received-I'm trying to get
info from family, My ancestors were sons of owner.How else can I get
some of the slave info from family?.
EdwardBall:
Good Luck. Keep Trying.**....
A Family Has Many Parts.try The Younger Members; Write
Them Cordial Letters, Try To Gainth Their Curiosity. It May Be That They
Don't Have Information, Anyway.the Family Papers Might Have Been
Deposited In An Archive Somewhere,And Those Are What You Really Want.**
PercyPC: Thanks!
AudreyB951: Did you have any sources for information about Kate Wilson?
I am her gggranddaughter here in Atl..
EdwardBall:
Hi! You Must Know Edwina Whitlock And Mae Gentry And The Gang.
,Have A Look In My Book In The Chapter About The Harleston Family. There Are
Footnotes With Sources. Some Of It Is Oral Tradition, And Bits And Pieces
Are Paper Documentation.**
Kdberr: I belong to genealogy listservs and it's hard to motivate
whites to share their info. Any suggestions?
...
EdwardBall:
About Whites Sharing Data, What Responses Do You Get, Kdberr? **
Kdberr: Responses range from helpful to re-fighting the Civil War.
A lot of guilt and explanations.A lot of times, nothing.
EdwardBall:
It Sounds Like The State Of Current Conversation On Race In General.
i Don't Have A Magic Key. i Mean, Genealogy Is Traditionally A Way
That Insecure People Use To Connect Themselves To A History Greater
Than Themselves, And Find Distant Glory In The Past. So I'm Not
Surprised You Have Trouble.try All Of Your Wiles: Perseverence,
Cordiality, Intellectual Lures,And So On. i Imagine You'll Have Spotty
Luck. Of Course Blacks Do Genealogy For Other Reasons, But Traditionally
Genealogy, As Used For Generations By The Daughters Of The American
Revolution And That Kind Of Person, Is Not A Pure Sport.**
GFS Angela: Caryacrack go ahead
EdwardBall:
The Descendants Of The Ball Slaves, If I Had To Generalize, Which Is
Dangerous Because Everyone
Has A Particular Way Of Assimilatingthe Legacy Of Slavery, And Therefore
Has Had A Different Way Of Dealing With Me--But To Generalize, They Reacted
Initially With Shock. They Were Stunned That I Had Come Into Their Lives.
They Were Also Suspicious, In Some Cases, That I Was Not To Be Trusted.
Usually I Brought To The Table Research About Their Family Background--
The Names Of Their Ancestors, Where They Lived, What They Did, Whether
They Tried To Escape--That They Themselves Did Not Have. And This Helped
Set The Tone Of Our Relationship. After We Spent Some Weeks And Many
Visits With One Another, Gradually We Developed Mutual Trust, And Became
Part Of Each Other's Lives.**
Caryacrack: Edward, were any of them openly hostile to you?
EdwardBall:
Two Or Three Were Openly Hostile, But I Expected Many People
To Be Bitter. i Think My Desire To Reconcile Was Obvious Once
We Sat Down, And That Made Some Difference. However, There
Were Some People Who Refused To Talk With Me, And We Could
Not Even Make That First Step.**
AVande7517: ? Where the Vanderhorst's apart of your research?
EdwardBall:
There Were Former Ball Slaves Who Took The Name Vanderhorst.
Some Of Them Came From A Place Called Comingtee Plantation,25
Miles North Of Charleston. But I Didn't In The End Meet Any Of Their
Descendants. Have A Look At My Book And See If The Places And People In It
Ring A Bell With Any Of The Old Folks In Your Family.**
P FShands: Mr Ball...As you meet the general public presenting
your book could you do us a favor and let people know their wills
and bill of sales should be out on the net to help others trace their roots
AVande7517: EDWARD thanks
EdwardBall:
As I Go Around Giving Talks, i Make a Point Of Urging People Who Have
Plantation Papers In Their Possession To Give Them To Archives Or
University Libraries In The Counties Where The Plantations They
Concern once Stood.**
.
KGomill411: Did you come across white young jpeople
doing reasearch also?
EdwardBall:
I Don't Believe So, But Have A Look At Chapter 16.**
Evross358: Most people that are none black, would have other
reasons for genealogy than black people, in my opinion.
KGomill411: Were the plantations the same in upper SC
as well a lower SC?
GFS Angela:
KGomill what do you mean, young white people researching slaves?
KGomill411: I actually meant doing research on their
ancestors who were slave owners?
Kristel360: NoodleDee, I am still confused by that
statement he made.
EdwardBall:
I've Met Plenty Of People Of The Type I Mentioned Earlier--
Those Who Want To Associate Themselves With Wealth And
Early American History. I've Met Some People Who Are
Interested In Researching Their Own (Slaveowning) Families
For Better Reasons. i Hope To Meet More.**
KGomill411: Do you think that the white descendants may be
leary of Blacks researching and finding out about their ancestors
Elizabe309: Last month I gave a lecture to my DAR
chapter on black genealogy.
Elizabe309: The response was wonderful and many came
up and said they had info to share
PercyPC: KGomil, no kidding!
Waiwai001: AA he gave an address earlier , where to reach him
Mzinga: ?Was wondering if any BALLs married and migrated elsewhere
Mzinga: with their slaves (away from the rice plantations)??
Kdberr: He doesnt confuse me! He's describing "*my* people came over
in the Mayflower'' syndrome! Mine didnt!
KGomill411: I didn't get to my point, Percy P
AA6JZ: Sorry...
Caryacrack: KD, I hear ya
EdwardBall:
Eventually We Will Get Somethinglike A Shared History, White
With Black, Side By Side, Which Is After All The Way We Have
Lived As a Nation. Just Now We Have A Curiously Segregated
History, Black Story telling On One Side, And White On The Other.
If We Pull Together We Can Do Better.**
GFS REB:
GFS Angela: GFSMarol, you have a comment or observation?
GFS Marol: I wanted to credit the Genealogy Staff and Pittsburg,
PA Chapter of AAHGS for their questions I posed earlier.
GFS Marol: I also had a question
GFS Angela: go ahead Marol.
GFS Marol: How many of the slave descendants chose to use ficticious
names in your book?
EdwardBall:
Yes, Elizabeth, i Heard Your Comment.we Need More Of That.**
EdwardBall:
In Answer To Gfs Marol, i Think Two Or Three Chose To Use
Fictitious Names.**
GFS Marol: Thank you.
GFS Angela:
We have to dim our lights..........
this has been an incredible evening!!!!!!!!!! I wish to personally
thank Mr. Edward BALL for joining us this evening.By the way....
for any of our Old timers......you might recall one EdBall in the
SIG.. Mr. Ball did occaasionally join us a couple of years ago.
NOTLAWFSM2: Mr Ball I really enjoyed your talk
GFS Selma: Clap, Clap
MaryT73352: Applause!!!
Mzinga: were USCT.
Caryacrack: Thank you Mr. Ball
Mazie325: thanks Angela
Waiwai001: *applause*
.. Spburriss: This has been an excellent, excellent presentation and question and answer period.
Kdberr: Yes Angela this has been great. thanks to Ed Ball and the Afrigeneas folks!!!!
AudreyB951: Thank you for inviting Ed Ball. This was great !
Mzinga: Bravo Bravo Bravo
ADailey720: Applause!!!
GFS REB: *applause*
LBall3466: <>o..
KGomill411: Applause, I really enjoyed this!
EdwardBall: My Pleasure Being Here.**
Caryacrack: Percy, please mail me sometime....I would love to chat
Bipsylou: Thanks loads!!
GFS Marol: CLAP, CLAP, CLAP! Thank you so much for speaking to us this evening!
GFS Angela: it is GREAT to have you back
SpeedRoots: Hi Cary
NOTLAWFSM2: Thank you all for the experience especially GFS Angela
CREATVCNCP: Applause and hope to meet when???
PercyPC: THANKS EDWARD and Great Job!
SandraBM: Great presentation!!!
Caryacrack: hey speed, you were so quiet
NOTLAWFSM2: who made it all possible
JSherbs: Thanks Mr. Ball, very interesting
LBall3466: Hi to everyone This Evening matter of fact ! {{}}
COMPBEN: THANKS1111
GFS Angela: and we congratulate you on your tremendous
work!!!!!!!! Many Thanks To You For Your Work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EdwardBall:
Thanks For The Forum. Everyone:Keep Working, And Reach Out To
Those White Folks Who Might Be Your Relatives, Too. They Need To
Know, And Come To Terms.**
Waiwai001: THANK YOU! Mr Ball
KGomill411: Thank you, Edward, I must get your book!
Evross358: This was a great and interesting evening, thank you, Mr. Ball
COMPBEN: I Am Enjoyimg Your Book!!
GFS Angela:
The formal part of this session has ended, and many thanks to all of you for
joining us here!!! I appreciate the adjustments that all of you have made
to this room with the double screen a new one for all to work with.
ARGYTMC: Very interesting presentation.
. Spburriss: Honor To All Our Ancestors!!!!!
NoodleDee: yes ALL of them
NOTLAWFSM2: How long before it will be in Paperback > Anyone have a clue ?
Glo In Va: Thanks Mr Ball for having the courage to write
the book which I really enjoyed. Good night all.
Evross358: I also am still reading the book, and enjoying it immensely
CREATVCNCP: Is there more for those who choose to stay in room??
This is my first visit.
GFS Angela:
Thank you Mr. Ball!!!!!!!
Good night and thank you very much Edward!!!!!
EdwardBall:
You're Welcome, Angela. I'm Afraid I'll Have To Jump Off Here.
Look Forward To Seeing You Another Time. Good Night.**
GFS VKN: \/\/ \/ \/ Clapping
GFS Marol: Thank you too Angela and VKN
AudreyB951: I am reading the book now and will finish it in a few days.
PercyPC: Thanks Angela, Super Job!
NOTLAWFSM2: So very crowded tonight Loved it
GFS Angela: thanks Percy!!!
CREATVCNCP: Thanks for retrieving me from limbo, Clint.
SpeedRoots: byeeeeee
GFS Angela:
Good night to all see you next week in our regular room.
Our formal meeting is adjourned. You are free to remain and fellowship.
and mingle..but at this time......the Logs Are Closed.
© 2000 by AfriGeneas. All rights reserved.