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Re: Creek Citizenship Case [ more of thread]
In Response To: Creek Citizenship Case ()

Re: Creek Citizenship Case
Sam -- Tuesday, 4 October 2005, at 1:16 p.m.

How exactly could this case help the rest of the Creek freedmen descendants if the judge decides in favor of the plaintiffs? Is this case really about Freedmen or is it more about persons who are Creeks by blood who were enrolled as freedmen by "mistake"? Doesn't that just perpetuate the problem? If this case is successful, won't other Creeks of African descent who gained their right to citizenship through the treaty of 1866 still be left out? If you win and if the men in this case go off to obtain their citizenship and CDIB cards, who will stand up and fight for those left behind?

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Re: Creek Citizenship Case
JennyH -- Tuesday, 4 October 2005, at 9:03 p.m.

Yes, i would think it is a case about Freedmen with "Creek Blood" and if the case is successful and Creek decendants that can prove their Creek blood are given their citizenship, then you continue the fight with decendants of Freedmen that were "on the dawes rolls and given citizenship in the tribe". I certainly hope they win because people will be able to claim their rightful heritage. There will also be people who cannot claim citizenship because they don't have papers to prove their heritage (me included, my ggrandmother was Creek but she is not on the dawes rolls). Maybe this is wishful thinking but I feel that if the case is won, that's one step closer to citizenship for all concerned.

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Re: Creek Citizenship Case
Norma Edwards -- Wednesday, 5 October 2005, at 10:19 a.m.

Yes with the proper documents Creek blood can be proven, but who really knows which documents the nation will accept. Because of sovereignty, the nation can change the document requirements at any time (what's accepted today may not be accepted tomorrow).

This citizenship process is like treaties that were broken.

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Re: Creek Citizenship Case
Wot-ko -- Thursday, 6 October 2005, at 7:26 a.m.

The issue of citizenship will always be tied to the Dawes Rolls. The Dawes Rolls are the controlling factor.

The U.S. Government only recognizes the Dawes Rolls for tribal membership to determine the federal dollar.

If the Creek Nation decided to open the rolls to include other non-recognized or other archived tribal town rolls there would be questions to the validity of the Creek Nation membership.

That simply can not happen.

Any individual that can prove blood ties to anyone on the Dawes Rolls, other than Freedman, is eligible for membership in the Creek Nation. Anything less is futile.

Individuals that are enrolled as "freedman" are determined non-Creek. As unfortunate as that sounds we have to remember during the time of the Dawes enrollment, many pure-blood Creeks chose not to enroll. Their blood lines are lost on paper as well.

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Re: Creek Citizenship Case
Eli Grayson -- Thursday, 6 October 2005, at 3:49 p.m.

Hensci
I have been following the tread closely and have been waiting for a Federal idealist to come aboard and post this very thing.

You said "the Dawes Rolls are the controlling factor"

Our Muscogee (Creek) Nation Constitution never mentions the word Dawes Rolls, lets be very clear about that....May I suggest you read it more carefully.

As the earliar poster stated Article III reads clearly ...'shall consist of Muscogee Creek) Indians by blood whose names appear on the final rolls as provided by the Act of April 26, 1906 (34 Stat. 137), and other evidence, as prescribed by ordinance.

You said "The US Government only recognizes the Dawes Rolls for tribal membership to determine the federal dollar"

Well first, THAT STATEMENT IS A LIE (UNTRUTH), if that was the case than all the other Federally recognized tribes would never get a dime,.....second anybody that will sell their grandfather or cousins out for a nickle should be publicly ridiculed.

You said "If the Creek Nation decided to open the rolls to include other non-recognized or other archived tribal town rolls there would be questions to the validity of the Creek Nation membership."

Good grief......you believe the Dawes Rolls has validity....come on...get real, you can't possibly believe the Dawes Commission was not corrupt. WHO EVER YOU ARE (I believe I know who you are), here is a news flash.....THE DAWES ROLLS WAS ABOUT STEALING LAND FROM INDIANS>>>NEWS FLASH>>>>NEWS FLASH!!!! I hope you get it.

Second, the Creek Nations tribal town rolls are more valid than a bunch of white folks from the Federal government stealing land.

I am sorry you have so little faith in our Creek ancestors, to think we could not have taken a valid census of our nation.....Well, I believe in my ancestors' ability to do the right thing, however I do know that a few relics from the pre-Civil War slaves days remain amoung us....but they are being dealt with....thank goodness for Father Time and first class funerals.

You said "Any individual that can prove blood ties to anyone on the Dawes Rolls, OTHER THAN FREEDMEN, is eligible for memership in the Creek Nation. Anything less is futile."

First, you seem to think that the Muscogee (Creek) Nation is a club and not a nation, by using words like membership instead of citizenship. Only a Federalist and someone who really doesn't believe in true Indian Nation sovereignty will make such remarks.

ANOTHER NEWS FLASH>>>>NEWS FLASH>>>>>NEWS FLASH!!!!ALERT ALERT
LET YOUR IGNORANCE GO...FREE YOUR SELF OF HATE...STOP THE MADDNESS...
LUSTE CATE

Freedmen and their Descendants including many luste cate people who were NEVER slaves HAVE BEEN a part of Creek history and its government for nearly 500 hundred years. By picking up a book and reading you would know this......removed the shades of racism, hate and bigotry from your eyes and learn the truth.

You said "Individuals that are enrolled as "freedman" are determined non-Creek."

Wot-ko (racoon) these are YOUR words alone....no legitimate historian will ever make a statement like that... Don't be afraid of the truth. It sounds like the racoon is hiding from some historical truth about their own ancestors.

You said "many pure-blood Creeks chose not to enrolled"

Where do I start, PURE BLOOD....please stop comparing my people to animals. That is a true sign of a FEDERALIST or some government employee from the BIA!

The key word in your statement is "chose". THEY CHOSE NOT TO BE ENROLLED! The Freedmen and their descendants CHOSE to enroll, their blood lost (from slavery) has not been lost on paper. It is well documented!

But stop destroying their papers!

Eli Grayson

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Creek Citizenship Case
Observer -- Thursday, 6 October 2005, at 4:45 p.m.

Mr. Grayson,

Your responses were needed. To look at what you were responded to is an interesting case by itself:

The post said:
"Any individual that can prove blood ties to anyone on the Dawes Rolls, other than Freedman, is eligible for membership in the Creek Nation. Anything less is futile."

Isn't it given that the US govt. allows the tribes to determine who is eligible for citizenship in their own tribe? Why then would a person (who is clearly a biased person) say that a Federal Record is the basis for membership when the tribe can determine the basis for citizenship?

That almost sounds like the words of someone who has the ability to prevent people from enrollment. Of course by making erroneous statements and revising history (are they not called revisionists?) people are trying to write Freedman leaders, out of the history of the tribe. But what is this based on? Color?

"...other than Freedmen....." ---maybe it IS based on color!

Isn't there also current situation where some of the loudest voices against Freedman citizenship in the tribe are actually descendants of some of the Freedman leaders like Silas Jeffersons but are now hiding their ties to some of the tribes strong leaders? Don't some these very people who are hiding their Freedman ancestry hold office in the tribe?

I guess it is assumed that what is, can never change.

Fortunately, everyone in America, as well as in the Creek Nation, is not tied to old racist systems. Evidence---the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the US Constitution changed this country. I am sure that there were folks in those days who also said that "well it is unfortunate but anything to change it is futile." I guess that was just wishful thinking on their parts, too.

Indeed history is interesting to observe.

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Re: Creek Citizenship Case
hopoyv fvccetv -- Thursday, 6 October 2005, at 5:21 p.m.

Enka, Mr. Grayson
I am embarress at such post as the racoon. The racoon mask serves you well.
Let it be known that people like this are surly losing ground on this issue. It is clearly racism. What a ugly heart. How they hide behind mother liberty and the US government to promote their racist schism.
Mr. Simmons mvto on behalf of the people you represented including yourself.
I look forward to day when the Mvskoke people look back in their history and call these the DARK AGES of Creek History. May the names of these racist people be written clearly and correctly as those responsible for this unjustice.

Fvccetv

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Re: Creek Citizenship Case
Norma Edwards -- Thursday, 6 October 2005, at 1:58 p.m.

Thanks for your answer.

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