Join the Genealogy Revolution.
Search for your surname in the largest DNA database of its kind!

My Surname


Footnote.com

Banner - Family Tree Maker 2008

Domain Name Registration at GoDaddy.com 120x60


AfriGeneas Free Persons of Color Forum

Re: Redman UGRR connections
In Response To: Re: Redman UGRR connections ()

Hi Jane :)

Thank you very much for the citations ... that is a great help :)

> note that when I use words like "maybe"/"possibly"/"could be", it means
> I'm offering a possible scenerio, not that I'm stating a conclusion!

Yes I realize that :) But my previous experiences have taught me that, there are individuals
who easily forget a word like "maybe" & then repeat the info as if it were fact.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is true in the case of the BRANSOM reference you made
(which I have not seen). Most likely BRANSOM said that Solomon BRUCE who married Jane,
"probably" also married Nellie ... but others are repeating it as a fact.

Because of this I have learned to try & first be clear on what facts
are in evidence first & only then add on ALL the possiblities,
so that others can make their own investigations. So we know that ...

1. Solomon BRUCE (the VanMETER slave) married a Jane.

2. "a" Solomon BRUCE married Eleanor=Ellen=Nellie LETT
(& then she remarried to Barnet REDMAN).

We have NO documents that tell us whether these 2 marriages of Solomon BRUCE
were by the same individual or whether they were 2 different people.
Therefore I take the position that they are different people &
hope that I or others will uncover more info to clarify this position.

Corroborating census info shows us ...

1850 census - Solomon BRUCE & Jane had children Susan, Martha E., Mary & Andrew.
1860 census - this Solomon has lost his wife but still has these same children with him.

1850 census - Nellie (LETT) (BRUCE) & her 2nd husband Barnet REDMAN
have children Margaret, Catherine, Ruth, Ellen=Eleanor & Barnet in the household.
1860 census - this Nellie has the same children with her.

Andrew Jackson BRUCE-REDMAN's obituary tells us that his father was a Solomon BRUCE;
& his obituary also confirms that he & Catherine on the 1860 census are step-siblings.
Catherine's obituary confirms who her parents are.

Obituary info is typically supplied by the surviving spouse or children.
So Andrew Jackson BRUCE-REDMAN's obituary info would have been supplied by his children,
or his 2nd wife Amanda PARKER. Andrew died in his 60's so his mother is probably dead by then.
In any case, the informant would have given Andrew's mother's surname as REDMAN,
since that was the only surname they knew her by ! The informants were too young to have
known Andrew's mother when she was still a LETT or a BRUCE (about 70 years previous).

My personal view is that they are 2 different Solomon BRUCE because otherwise,
for them to be the same person, you have to make a lot of assumptions, such as:

- Solomon BRUCE (the VanMETER slave) would have to have
married Nellie who was about 10 years older than him
- then he would have had to have divorced Nellie to marry Jane.

But there is no documentation on any of this! ...
& it is bad genealogy to make too many assumptions without any proof.

So much for Solomon BRUCE ... if you don't agree with
my interpretation of the evidence, then we agree to disagree :)

---

> I'm not familiar with Turney as one of Isaac's wives. Can you tell me about her?

Sarah Jane TURNEY was Isaac CLIFFORD's 3rd of 4 wives.
This info came from a family descendant & I was not provided with more details.

> I have no evidence as to which of Isaac Clifford's sons was the father of Isaac born abt 1824.

A CLIFFORD family descendant claims that Isaac CLIFFORD (with 4 wives) is the son of
Jacob CLIFFORD & Sally SMITH; & further states that after the 1831 death of his father,
this Jacob moved his family from WVA,Hardy-Co to PA,Greene-Co,Franklin-Twp
& is living in a LETT household in 1850.

Looking further into this I found a Jacob CLIIFORD on the following PA census ...

* 1840 Census of PA,Greene-Co,Franklin-Twp;

* 1850 Census of PA,Greene-Co,Franklin-Twp (all mulattos):
MD 76 LOTT David
VA 75 LOTT Betsy (wife)
VA 38 CLIFFORD Mary (daughter)
VA 47 CLIFFORD Jacob (son-in-law)
PA 15 CLIFFORD Eliza
PA 10 CLIFFORD Solomon
PA 06 CLIFFORD Jacob
PA 04 CLIFFORD Rebecca
PA 01 CLIFFORD William
(neighbors were REDMAN & PERRILL);

The problem is that this Jacob CLIFFORD's wife is Mary instead of Sally.
And thus we are back to my orginal question which was whether
this Jacob CLIFFORD who married Mary LOTT=LETT is the same
or a different individual from the one who married Sally SMITH ?

> One CLIFFORD line goes like this ...

> .1 Jacob CLIFFORD, Sr. m=Mary LETT=LOTT
> ..2 Jacob CLIFFORD, Jr. n=abt.1844 PA

> Another CLIFFORD line goes like this ...

> .1 Isaac CLIFFORD, Sr. m=1796 Judy=Julia LEWIS
> ..2 Jacob CLIFFORD m=1823 Sally SMITH
> ...3 Isaac CLIFFORD n=abt.1824 (married 4 times - KENT, LOWRY, TURNEY & REDMAN)
> ....4 Jacob CLIFFORD n=1860 d=1929

> I was asking you whether or not you might know if any of these Jacobs
> are in fact the same person who had multiple marriages.
> Or whether all of the Jacob CLIFFORDs were completely different individuals.

---

I hope when you have time, you will be able to give me more info on
the descendants of John REDMAN, FPOC & Rev. War veteran :)

NICOLE

Messages In This Thread

Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Patawomeck - Grigsby, Redman, Mann, ect.
Re: Rachael Mann (c. 1780-1880) of VA & DC
Re: Rachael Mann (c. 1780-1880) of VA & DC
Re: Rachael Mann (c. 1780-1880) of VA & DC
Re: Rachael Mann (c. 1780-1880) of VA & DC
Re: Patawomeck - Grigsby, Redman, Mann, ect.
Re: Patawomeck - Grigsby, Redman, Mann, ect.
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Edward Fidler, Hardy Co., VA (now WV)
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Wolverton Redman
Re: Wolverton Redman
Re: Wolverton Redman
Re: Wolverton Redman
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: John, Jesse, & Barnet Redman
Re: John, Jesse, & Barnet Redman
Re: John, Jesse, & Barnet Redman
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman UGRR connections - Van Meter
Re: Redman UGRR connections
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA
Re: Redman/Warrick of Loudoun Co., VA

18 Dec 2002 :: 14 Nov 2008
Copyright © 2002-2008 by AfriGeneas. All rights reserved.
AfriGeneas ~ African Ancestored Genealogy