*LunchBunch

Start: 11:59:20
End: 13:39:34
Chatters: 3rdthawkins, alt, AYWalton, daviss, Ingrid_Doweary, JohnDoe, Selma, Seventies Soulchild, Spivey, vkn, yatah

yatah: hi hi

daviss: hello yatah!

yatah: hi there

daviss: and also to you third long time yatah,how have you been?

3rdthawkins: hello alt daviss and yatah

yatah: i am doing fine

alt: hello 3rd, daviss & hello yatah

daviss: thats good to hear yatah, and I guess I can say the same how's it going alt?

yatah: Quiller, davis , mintz, darby

daviss: hello there Spivey

Spivey: Hi 3rdthawkins, alt, daviss and yatah! Good to see you again, yatah!

yatah: thanks :}

daviss: I hope you have made some progress on your research since you were here last yatah

yatah: same one still in brick

daviss: Spivey what hours do you go to chat on Looking. ET time that is

yatah: davis family and mintz pretty good but darby and quiller brick

daviss: me too yatah but I still keep on pushing

yatah: yeah just miss is luther quiller that i cant find him his brothers and sisters find good

Spivey: It depends daviss. Let me know what time you're going and I'll try to be there.

Seventies Soulchild: hello all

daviss: ok thanks Spivey howdy seventies

Spivey: Hi Seventies Soulchild!

alt: hello Seventies Soulchild

yatah: hello all

Seventies Soulchild: hi 3rd, alt, daviss, Spivey, yatah

Spivey: t doing anything today but giving myself a headache daviss, so I'm free. LOL.

daviss: well missy, have you read through your newly received

vkn: Howdy good people

alt: hello vkn

daviss: have you read through your newly received info yet seventies

alt: we still on for tonite @ 6:00 pm vkn?

daviss: seventies

Spivey: Oh, LOL.

daviss: lol

vkn: I need y'all to take a look at this test location please. We are trying to update the slave database configuration

Seventies Soulchild: which new information? lol I've seen a couple of things this past week Now I was looking at the service cards Ingrid sent me...

daviss: the pkt you got from Ingrid

alt: is this for adding submissions to the Slave database vkn?

Seventies Soulchild: But I am trying to figure out what exactly I should request from the archives.

vkn: Yes alt

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey everyone.

Seventies Soulchild: I do want the pension file. However, it looks like there was some sort of judicial action (court martial) that went on with this soldier. My first order of priority though is to verify familial relationship.

Spivey: Hi Ingrid_Doweary!

Seventies Soulchild: Hi Ingrid_Doweary

vkn: http://www.afrigeneas.com/slavedata_new

daviss: hello ingrid

alt: if the CW Seventies Soulchild, what is there ather than the Service Packet, Pension Appl & file & perhaps a Widows pension Appl?

Ingrid_Doweary: I'll be in and out of the chat session today. Lone Technician on duty.

Seventies Soulchild: Actually alt the only pension that I see on file is that of the family in the name of Canada Galimore et al

vkn: yatah, long time no see how are you

yatah: thanks and i am doing fine

Spivey: Okay Ingrid_Doweary. Hang in there.

vkn: wonderful yatah

yatah: vkn, busy with kids

alt: okay vkn, somehow I've 'lost' my UN/PW for submissions to the databases vkn :?

Seventies Soulchild: It appears as if there are multiple records that may be relevant to this soldier.

daviss: looks ok to me vkn.. will the submissions be instant

vkn: Will double check alt and send

Seventies Soulchild: Does this make any sense?

vkn: Yes it would be daviss

alt: okay vkn, no hurry, I don't have any 'pressing' additions for the DB's.

daviss: thats great vkn

Spivey: Welcome back 3rdthawkins.

3rdthawkins: hello Ingrid Seventies Spivey and vkn

vkn: okies but tale a llok here each and every one http://www.afrigeneas.com/slavedata_new this be urgent

3rdthawkins: thx Spivey and Ingrid

vkn: Thanx for input daviss

alt: I would think the 'Service Packet" would have locations served and any court actions for the individual Seventies Soulchild. course I could be wrong on that.

3rdthawkins: hello JohnDoe

Spivey: What is that I'm looking at vkn?

3rdthawkins: welcome to Chat, are you New?

Seventies Soulchild: welcome JohnDoe

vkn: and yes alt and all we are on for 6PM to test other side of chat

JohnDoe: not new, 51 years old

Spivey: Hi JohnDoe! What an original name!

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey JohnDoe

vkn: Slave database test site spivey

3rdthawkins: are you new to chat JohnDoe?

Ingrid_Doweary: Cool beans, Vkn.

alt: oh, oh is John Doe from CA?

daviss: are you going to transfer all the old transmissions first vkn before we add ours

Seventies Soulchild: ok great. Now maybe I can upload those Mercer records from MS

JohnDoe: well ..... feeling young enough to try something new

3rdthawkins: ok

daviss: hello JohnDoe

Spivey: That's the spirit JohnDoe!

vkn: No adds yet just a test site daviss I have asked developer to start over

alt: to me, it looked like the postings 'took' vkn.

daviss: ok vkn well I give it a thumbs up

vkn: But does it look too much like the regular forum alt and y'all

JohnDoe: honestly, I'm the guy in Hamburg, helping VKN in the background. Checking in coz she wanted to discuss slavedata with you. curious lurker only

Seventies Soulchild: oh okay

vkn: ahhhhhh Rai...!!!!!!

alt: welcome JohnDoe, I thought you might have been a 'regular' in disguise.

daviss: John the Lurker lol

Spivey: It looks exactly like the regular forum, vkn, but i'm not sure that's good or bad.

vkn: Well add your thinking JohnDoe glad you have joined us and all the way from Germany

JohnDoe: don't compare to the forum. it's all configurable. ONLY question is how a single dataset (and ONLY the data of the set) should present

daviss: I have no problem with it looking like the regular forum as long as it serves my purpose of posting and getting what I need from it

vkn: Some fokes had said it did not look professional alt

Spivey: That would mean that the AfriGeneas message board does not look professional vkn?

Seventies Soulchild: What's wrong with this form? I say keep it simple.

alt: okay, now I see... I bookmarked it... it is a 'new' submission "FORM" and not a FORUM

vkn: So John Doe was wondering if we need to start over and I said yes but thought that you peeps are the best to help us decide

3rdthawkins: doesn't look professional to me vkn

daviss: wb johndoe

Spivey: Hi Selma!

JohnDoe: sorry, browser playing wild

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Selma

3rdthawkins: sorry

Seventies Soulchild: hi Selma

Spivey: Welome back, JohnDoe.

daviss: hello selma

JohnDoe: what's professional. be more specific please

vkn: Hi Selma take a look here and add a comment please http://www.afrigeneas.com/slavedata_new

Selma: Afternoon everyone Ok VKN

vkn: Yes 3rd what is professional

Spivey: vkn, I'm going to sit this one out. I don't know enough about what you're trying to set up to determine if it 'looks professional' or not.

Seventies Soulchild: The only thing I wouldn't mind seeing is people being able to upload actual photos of the documents where available

JohnDoe: click the Ziegler, Henry link to see ONE dataset

vkn: Well is it readable spivey It is about how accessible useable the dataset is

alt: if I understand it.. One has to go to the Slave Database to see the reformatted FORM for submissions... so it doesn't matter if it looks like a FORUM because I need the additional 'step' to get to this FORM

3rdthawkins: the messages/threads could use a little more shine to it,

vkn: What is shine in database language 3rd

daviss: I looked at that first and I still don't see anything wrong IMHO

JohnDoe: don't wonder (yet) HOW to access the data. Navigation isn't dealt with. We only want to format the display of one dataset

Seventies Soulchild: Me either daviss

Spivey: vkn, I'm not talkin about readability. I just don't know what this is supposed to be, what it's supposed to accomplish, etc.

3rdthawkins: as far as the database goes, I think it needs to be updated, but the look would too, I don't really like the color that Afrigeneas uses

Ingrid_Doweary: Describe the appearance you have in mind, 3rd.

Seventies Soulchild: I have a quick question say if there are more than one document on say Henry Ziegler, how would that look?

vkn: So that people contributing slave data can do so immediately and so that you can search and find in the same way immediately spivey

JohnDoe: we first need to somehow find a way to format one dataset (document). Then, in later steps will try to make them "browsable" and "searchable"

Seventies Soulchild: ok

vkn: MUCHO complaints that we are too slow to display

Spivey: Okay vkn.

Selma: Ok I see...so this is what it would look like once the info is submitted? But it is not the form that the submitter would use?

daviss: reason I asked it submissions would be instant vkn

vkn: JohnDoe is our developer and needs to learn what users think

JohnDoe: basically we'll use the same software but use a special form, a formatted display of one dataset and (third) ways to access these datasets. Now we'll have all options of the forumsoftware, the same feeling but a different form and display

vkn: Our database is years away from being systematically updated we need to correct that as of yesterday

yatah: what you guys talk about ?

JohnDoe: ... and of course the same admin backend for the slavedata. Users may contribute and admins have the same interface for maintenance tasks (filtering, moderating.......)

alt: these submissions... they can be 'copy & paste', scanned documents and/or transcribed/typed documents?

daviss: yatah we are talking about a way to update the slave database

Selma: Can the person submitting image of actual document?..this transcription in text

JohnDoe: currently copy and paste. But we'll have to import several 10K of datasets from all sort of documents. Not trivial because there is no unique structure of old stuff

alt: okay JohnDoe, a monumental task to re-configure the existing database into the format for 'new' submissions, right?

JohnDoe: If you want to see the form, go to the "Return to Index" page, then use the link "slaveata submission form" - can't link to it because it refuses direct links (security) alt: yes, a lot of work to preserve all existing data. Main problem currently is to fiddle how these data need to be formatted/stored in file.

alt: and the 'old' stuff needs to be preserved. can a 'wall' be built to separate the old from the new?

JohnDoe: why separate?

alt: like a partitioned database.

daviss: do we have that many old submissions

vkn: To be sure we do not loose the old I guess JohnDoe

JohnDoe: actually the old stuff is handcrafted HTML pages, or .txt files like this: http://www.afrigeneas.com/slavedata/Zeigler-AL-1840.txt

alt: no need to, I thought there was a configuration problem between old submission guidelines and this new format.

yatah: oh i see my davis do slave before so my grandma's parent slave yes but my grandma not slave

daviss: ok yatah

vkn: daviss we have a warehouse full of stuff on the server that has been sitting for about three years

JohnDoe: OK, please go here again http://www.afrigeneas.com/slavedata_new/index.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/1013

Spivey: Probably not, yatah, since she would have been too young.

daviss: ohhhhh vkn

vkn: Hold questions yatah for now

yatah: rite spivey she is last baby in her family

Spivey: Oh, I like that vkn.

JohnDoe: you see the thing which is like the forum. Take ONLY the part where the subject line is and the text area. In textarea you have some formatting to make data more readable. That's what we're talking about

Selma: I like the subject line..with Surname, First name owner, county, state..then whether Will or Deed or Bible record or whatever

JohnDoe: selma: yes, that's the topic

yatah: ok vkn

JohnDoe: and question is if you want the same layout of the page, that is the same ad columns in the same palace, same header/footer, same colorscheme?

Spivey: It looks like it will be easy to see the information at a glance JohnDoe. That format seems to be a winner. I'm not into the aesthetics JohnDoe, just usability.

vkn: We use MySQL for other databases but JohnDoe does not do that format we are having problems with that

JohnDoe: spivey, aesthetics have to do with information and usability.

Spivey: This format seems like it will work well for me, vkn, and that says something coming from one who is somewhat 'special'.

alt: okay JohnDoe,, the 'drop downs' for slave holder & doc type are great.. consistency... now is the problem.. how to 'reflect' the information/submission itself?

vkn: JohnDoe what can we do to allow contributors/users change their address etc

Spivey: In what sense JohnDoe?

JohnDoe: here is an example of the same sort of dataset display, only much cleaner imho: http://www.reitsportonline.de/information/reiter_news.pl/page/1/md/read/id/34 alt: can't follow, please explain

AYWalton: Food afternoon, all.

JohnDoe: sorry folks, I'm somewhat slow. Looking up stuff to show you makes me slow down

vkn: From the nav bar JohnDoe

Spivey: Hi AYWalton!

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey AY.

Spivey: JohnDoe, I'm getting lost. That last example is the same dataset presented in a different format, or part of the first dataset you showed us?

JohnDoe: navbar? we're not discussing navbar. What am I missing?

vkn: AYWalton our Developer, JohnDoe, in Germany is helping us look at the slavedatabase configuration

AYWalton: hello alt, daviss, Ingrid, JohnDoe, Ms. Selma,, Spivey, yatah oh that's wonderful, VKN.

JohnDoe: spivey: the link is one of my sites, using the same software/database but presenting NON-forum data in various, much cleaner ways.

vkn: erase my explain JohnDoe will graphic you later

Seventies Soulchild: ok

Selma: When you say cleaner..you mean smaller ads, less space to extraneous stuff

Spivey: Ah, thanks JohnDoe. I hope we settle on presenting the first dataset format or both. I prefer the first.

alt: I see ..contirbutor, slaveholder & document data as "pre-configured"/standard.. my ? deal with document content. how is that entered.. copy & paste, scan, typed/transcribed, etc.

Seventies Soulchild: Ok well I have an office 'event' that I'm attending. Everyone be breezy!

JohnDoe: cleaner: only the subject, no poster, timestamp and all such. No borders. focus more on the object to display

vkn: and to add on to alts question JohnDoe can media be included

Spivey: JohnDoe, the second one is not as aesthetically pleasing though.

Selma: Should there be a "line" for where this document is located? LVA on microfilm, Courthouse, etc..

JohnDoe: spivey, what would you like? example link? selma: don't understand the question, sorry

Selma: No I think we need the "poster"...so folks know who to contact..

alt: I think the 'source' line/block would answer Selma's question

JohnDoe: Poster yes, but does it need to be at the top? and maybe one could format it a bit different? source line is OK, or bottom: contributed by

Spivey: JohnDoe are you partial to the second presentation of the dataset?

JohnDoe: spivey, what's the second presentation? the link to my site?

Spivey: Yes, JohnDoe. The one you consider to be cleaner in its presentation of the information.

alt: Contributor block has name, email & URL for homepage if contributor wants to show that link, right?

JohnDoe: my feeling is that different sections of a site should have intuitive and different presentation. Thus "non"-forum sites shouldn't "look" like a forum, though they may of course use the same backend software

Spivey: This is the one representation of the dataset I believe JohnDoe? http://www.reitsportonline.de/information/reiter_news.pl/page/1/md/read/id/34, and this is the second representation of that same dataset? http://www.afrigeneas.com/slavedata_new/index.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/1013

JohnDoe: alt: currently we're in the lucky state to put almost anything into almost every place

daviss: question: would the contributor be able to go in and make changes

JohnDoe: spivey: yes

vkn: Yes alt that is why your input is sooooo important we can do what the peeps in this room like/want Good question daviss

Spivey: Ah, a light is beginning to dawn. The 'forum' format is not what is needed in this dataset. Am I following you now JohnDoe?

JohnDoe: spivey: and here is another presentation: http://www.reitsportonline.de/information/pferde_berichte.pl/page/1/md/read/id/18/sbj/flash-dancer-xx-erhaelt-gruenes-licht-fuer-die-zucht/ spivey: yes. we use the forumsoftware at the backend. same registration (profile) same administration (for VKN and admins) but try to create a unique and usefull presentation for the data of that specific "slavedatabase" type of ... well forum we can make the slavedata look entirely different compared to what you know from the forum display. Nevertheless have the same feeling for posting and administration - including backups and all such

Spivey: Hmmm. Now I like that last one, JohnDoe. Presentation of information plus ability to add photos. Is it possible to include the beginning part of the first one into the last one JohnDoe? The 'forum' format sets out the particulars in the beginning in a detail that is appealing.

alt: personally like what I see in the data submission form.. all of the 'essential elements are there.

JohnDoe: daviss: editing is just another topic. Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on configuration. Risk is to break formatting. I tend to "no" for useredits as a general rule of thumb, but maye set it to "yes" for registered users. Does this help?

alt: now I;m confused.. are we talking 'submission FORM' or FORUM?

vkn: JohnDoe the primary edit would be user email address Submission alt

JohnDoe: spivey, we can do a lot. Only we need to be very specific of what we actually want and how it should look

Selma: I think we are talking about what it would look like after folks submitt..how it would be presented, once it hits the board..

vkn: Yes true Selma both

JohnDoe: selma is right

daviss: it helps however I would like to have the ability to change my email addy just in case its needed

Selma: All the things on the submission form need to be there...

JohnDoe: daviss: understood. However, edits are not limited to one item. All or none

vkn: So JohnDoe we can configure the address field for edit ?

alt: okay... would it not appear as it was presented in the Document Content of the submission FORM?

vkn: Ohhhh I see okay Can you fiddle with that all or none JohnDoe or would that be a second submit

JohnDoe: alt: form is to collect data (to help users add what's required). Display is different. Between is processing. Now I'm working on how processing must be done to display data in a way you're all confident with.

alt: okay JohnDoe

JohnDoe: vkn: nope, all or none - like Ebay, buy or not

vkn: lol

alt: on today's Slave Database... is the display not the same as how it was submitted?

vkn: alt each of those was done manually by an admin

alt: ah so

JohnDoe: Just to recap: The main problem we have is to agree on how single datasets are displayed. Unless this is definitely done we can't proceed to try importing those tons of old data and can't allow for direct submission of new data. That is because the processing of input to get the output must be finished

Selma: The question is do we what a blue background with waterfalls...and clowns jumping around..

vkn: So it is the labor intensive that caused submits to be halted lol @ Selma

JohnDoe: vkn is right. we need a display decision to allow for easy submits/formatting. Then VKN can much more easily maintain things.

vkn: Thanx so very very much for joining us JohnDoe

Selma: Have we given you a headache half way around the world?

JohnDoe: thx vkn all is fine, selma. Nice to meet you here.

alt: naw Selma.. I don't want 'bells' & whistles' I just want to see the data, who submitted it, how to contact them and the source of the information

vkn: Plan to join us again with an update JohnDoe

daviss: ditto alt

JohnDoe: alt & daviss: what are you missing on this page: http://www.afrigeneas.com/slavedata_new/index.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/1013

Spivey: Pleased to have met you JohnDoe.

JohnDoe: thx. spivey. same on my end

vkn: Thanx to all chatters joining in. You are each so special!!!!!

alt: JohnDoe, thanks I 'think' it is all there.. will only complain after you've given us the finished product LOL LOL

Spivey: The opening of that page is what I like, JohnDoe. That's my decision and I'm sticking to it! LOL.

JohnDoe:

daviss: I stated before that I like this format. simple and easy for me I say thumbs up

JohnDoe: Q: is copy and paste enough?

Spivey: Yes, I agree, daviss. I would like to see that one combined with the other demos JohnDoe let us see.

alt: it works for me JohnDoe

JohnDoe: do we need "attachements", if yes, which sort

yatah: still talk about this form ?

Selma: Yep yatah..still talkinb abou the form.. LOL

Spivey: Photos and other documents JohnDoe. Like census records, birth certificates, etc.

daviss: for me it is johndoe copy and paste

JohnDoe: what are documents? *.pdf? other?

alt: the added link will get us to the actual image if it is online , right?

Spivey: Other in my case JohnDoe. Usually image files, not PDF files.

JohnDoe: alt: yes, for example .. or .pdf

vkn: jpg and all .doc etc JohnDoe Yes to your 2nd Q JohnDoe

JohnDoe: ok, so do we need to upload those files?

vkn: and presenting Lists JohnDoe

JohnDoe: upload: caution: you may run into copyright issues without knowing!

vkn: JohnDoe we can admin those copyright issues

JohnDoe: upload is a risk, you never know where the document was created. can't control via admin imho

alt: I mean the added link will take us to the image, so it doesn't need to appear in the document content section, right?

vkn: JohnDoe we can admin those copyright issues and we have a disclaimer re copyright

Spivey: The files I have are generally publicly available on the Internet JohnDoe, free to download and use without copyright infringement.

JohnDoe: alt: could be a solution. But we could as well enable ONE image to be uploaded spivey: then one could directly link to those files on your server (and send folks there)

Spivey: Not really JohnDoe because the documents exist on my own personal computer.

yatah: i better go now

vkn: okies yatah

JohnDoe: regarding uploads: don't only take into account your personal situation and behaviour. Take into account someone new just "posting" stuff. VKN and B.J. are responsible for those folks as well.

Spivey: Okay yatah. I'll talk to you later. Bye for now.

daviss: bye yatah have a nice day

alt: laters yatah

JohnDoe: OK, so we somehow need uploads. What about allowing for ONE picture upload? one could easily pack a lot of stuff into one picture, even several scans. bye yatah

vkn: Indeed we need uploads

Spivey: One can, JohnDoe? How, may I ask?

JohnDoe: simple rule is: allowing ONE image is pretty simple and quick. Allowing for multiple uploads require more work on the form. More work == more time on all ends

vkn: There is no free lunch lol

Spivey: Understood JohnDoe, but how do we get several images on one upload?

vkn: $$$$$$$ spivey

alt: this is like when we upload 2-3-4 pics to a posting on the FORUMS?

JohnDoe: graphic program, build one image out of serveral not only $$$, vkn. Time!

Spivey: That's the answer I was looking for JohnDoe. Thanks.

vkn: Gotcha JohnDoe

JohnDoe: alt: yes, if you want more than one upload, then we need to fiddle the form, the processing, avoid mixing text and uploads and all such ... all doable, but not in a minute. Coding, testing, recoding, retesting ... re-agreeing…

daviss: would you want to limit uploads vkn

alt: not wanting to do it JohnDoe, just trying to clarify multiple photos in a single upload

JohnDoe: Overall main question is: how fast do you need it? Where is the compromise so serve the purpose?

alt: that question is 'above my pay grade' JohnDoe LOL lOL

JohnDoe: alt: if you open a graphic program and create a new empty image (large) then you can copy multiple images (masks) into that new image, save it to your disk (make a collage) and then upload that collage image

vkn: Thanx again JohnDoe alt daviss Selma Spivey No limit daviss and as you already know JohnDoe needed yesterday lol My driver is here to take me to do early voting. Talk at yall later at 6Pm for test of other chat room LOVE much to each and all

alt: right JohnDoe, and I don't believe many of our contributors are at that level of expertise.

Selma: I have to run folks..nice to meet you JohnDoe

JohnDoe: OK, thanks all for taking the time to talk about it. Hope you got some new ideas of the project. nice to have met you all. cheers

alt: thank you!!!!!!! for your time, patience & effort

daviss: same here john doe

Ingrid_Doweary: Cheers JohnDoe

daviss: I have to give it to anyone who puts up with us lol lol

alt: me too daviss.

daviss: I cant wait for that database to come up

alt: brought back memories of old days... do what I mean and not what I say.....programming & design

daviss: vkn said there are loads of info to be loaded yes alt!!

Spivey: daviss, how do I get to the session tonight?

alt: I can imagine.. the Slave Database itself was a 'hot' item several years ago.

daviss: spivey, when you first log in there are two partitions

alt: I think from the Learning & Conference Center at the top of the Chat homepage Spivey

daviss: instead of going into regular chat log into the Learning and Coference conference

Spivey: Is that all I have to do? When I tried yesterday, there were several rooms there.

daviss: it will be on the left side I believe

Spivey: Welcome back, alt.

alt: booted myself out going to the L7 C center

daviss: let me look brb

Spivey: LOL. Thanks for doing that alt.

alt: now my screen is blank

Spivey: Welcome back daviss. alt can't seem to get back in.

daviss: do you see what I am talking about spivey

Spivey: I will go there after, daviss. If I go now, I will be logged out of this room. Is there a certain room I should choose?

daviss: let me see what rooms they have first spivey.

Ingrid_Doweary: I'm gone Spivey. Next time.

Spivey: Okay Ingrid. Have a good day.

Ingrid_Doweary: You do the same.

Spivey: Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to help me daviss. I really appreciate it.

daviss: ok spivey I would just go into the first room you enter for now. After vkn comes in she will direct us where to go. I will check with her and see where she wants us since it will be a test. if you want to hold I will call her now

Spivey: Sounds good daviss. Thanks. You don't have to call her now.

daviss: too late lol

Spivey: LOL. She said she was going to vote.

daviss: oh

Spivey: I'll just show up in the 'lobby' area at 6.

daviss: lol line is busy anyway thats good

Spivey: Of course it is. Probably talking to JohnDoe.

daviss: see you then hopefully

Spivey: Okay. Have a good one and thanks again.

daviss: welcome

Spivey: Bye for now.

daviss: bye