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2010-10-16

*SatNiteChat

*SatNiteChat

Start: 20:50:56
End: 23:01:12
Chatters: 3rdthawkins, AmosNY, AYWalton, daviss, Ingrid_Doweary, jhonora, Selma, seventies soulchild, Spivey, vkn

vkn: Good Saturday Night AfriGeneans Friends Kins! We are so glad you have joined us this Night. What did we say last time? Take a read Good Saturday Night AfriGeneans Friends Kins! We are so glad you have joined us this Night. What did we say last time? Take a read here http://www.afrigeneas.com/chat/chatlogs.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/83 Also take note of new data posted to the Slave Research Forum. In particular notes from the Minutes of the Philadelphia Baptist Church in http://www.afrigeneas.com/forumd/index.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/23495#m_23495 Good Saturday 3rd

3rdthawkins: hello vkn

vkn: Looking for you to sign on to AfriGeneans Talking. Did you get the invite?

3rdthawkins: yes, I did

vkn: oh ok nuff said lol Also take note of new data posted to the Slave Research Forum. In particular notes from the Minutes of the Philadelpia Baptist Church in http://www.afrigeneas.com/forumd/index.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/23495#m_23495 Good Saturday Spivey

Spivey: Hi 3rdthawkins and vkn!

3rdthawkins: hey Spivey hello jhonora

Spivey: 3rdthawkins, I have a link to New York City databases that I don't know if you have or would be interested in. The link has searchable databases of vital records in Brooklyn, Queens, etc.

3rdthawkins: Italian gen?

Spivey: No 3rdthawkins.

jhonora: Evening Spivey, 3rdthawkins, vkn

3rdthawkins: ok, what is it?

Spivey: The Brooklyn Genealogy Page 3rdthawkins. You probably have that already.

3rdthawkins: no, I don't think would love to see it

vkn: Jhonora Good Saturday. Missed you last evening. Hope all is well

Spivey: http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/index.html

3rdthawkins: ok thx

Spivey: You're welcome 3rdthawkins. Don't let the title mislead you. It has more than just Brooklyn transcripts.

vkn: Also take note of new data posted to the Slave Research Forum. In particular notes from the Minutes of the Philadelpia Baptist Church in http://www.afrigeneas.com/forumd/index.cgi/page/1/md/read/id/23495#m_23495

3rdthawkins: hello vicky daviss mitchell

Spivey: Hi daviss!

3rdthawkins: ok spivey

jhonora: Yes, all is well, vkn. This is my society's conference meeting.

vkn: ahhhhh ok jhonora Good Saturday daviss

3rdthawkins: I hope all of this links work Spivey, I hate to click on them and none of them work. I hate that hello Seventies

seventies soulchild: hello all!

Spivey: Hi seventies souldchild!

vkn: Good Saturday Seventies

seventies soulchild: I am typing with one hand tonight! lol

Spivey: Good to know 3rdthawkins but you should contact the webmaster of the page to voice that opinion.

3rdthawkins: or you should check first yourself before you give it to someone

jhonora: vkn, we were in antebellum clothes for annual meeting/reception on Friday, had great sessions & reception today, and hopefully great awards ceremony & jazz brunch tomorrow.

Spivey: Wait for that to happen 3rdthawkins. I'll make sure I do that with any link I give you.

daviss: why is that 7

3rdthawkins: :) thx

Spivey: In future that is 3rdthawkins.

seventies soulchild: jhonora, my guys were down in N.O this past week doing recruitment for West Point.

vkn: That sounds great jhonora How many are participating?

daviss: hope there was no empty table seventies lol

seventies soulchild: no way! lol t

jhonora: We had about seventy for the meeting. About 90 today. And 170 tomorrow.

seventies soulchild: They did a lot of events, went to schools etc.

daviss: sounds like a good event jhonora

jhonora: 70s, did your guys visit St.Aug

vkn: Now those are good numbers jhonora was Michael of the Galvez papers there?

seventies soulchild: yes

jhonora: Yes he was there

daviss: mabe thats what they should have done when they were in Phx 7. We were there over two hrs and never saw anyone at their booth

seventies soulchild: I'm going to tell the boss. Those guys get paid for those events.

vkn: An interesting person Jhonora. I met him at the NARA conference here in Atlanta. he is passionate about his research to the max.

seventies soulchild: Hi Selma

daviss: thats not saying they were there before we came or after we left lol

seventies soulchild: Ok enough about work... lol

vkn: Good Saturday Selma

Spivey: Hi Selma!

3rdthawkins: hllo Selma

Selma: Good Saturday evening everyone

daviss: hello Selma!

seventies soulchild: I have a question, has anyone seen any naval records? I'm looking like mad for some. Specifically from WW 2

daviss: I have not did you check the archives

Spivey: I don't believe they're available seventies soulchild.

seventies soulchild: :{

vkn: Seventies you may want to be in touch with David Paterson dpaters4@yahoo.com

seventies soulchild: Don't tell me that ok vkn TY

Spivey: Navy, Air Force, Marines are not easy to come by seventies soulchild. Only the army records seem to be obtainable. Does he have some insight on acquiring them, vkn?

3rdthawkins: Seventies, I'm looking for Navy recs myself I can't find any to save my life

seventies soulchild: well thanks for the heads up 3rd

3rdthawkins: yw

vkn: If that door can be unlocked David would be the strongest reference I know. Not sure about the results but it is worth a query from where i sit.

Spivey: Okay vkn. Thanks.

daviss: please let us know seventies when you get David I also have a Navy person during that time

seventies soulchild: ok

daviss: vkn there are some good stories coming through on the Forum

vkn: I am enjoying each daviss

daviss: I thought and thought about what I wanted to write about regarding where you grew up

3rdthawkins: hello AY

AYWalton: Good evening all.

Spivey: Hi AYWalton!

AYWalton: hello 3rd, daviss, Ms. Selma, SoulChile, Spivey.

seventies soulchild: hi AYWalton

AYWalton: hey hey hey, it's honoray!!! Howdy jhonora! Greetings, VKN!!!!!!!!!!!!

daviss: decided not to because all army/Air Forces bases looked the same to me lol

Spivey: Hi Ingrid_Doweary!

Selma: Evening AY..evening INgrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey everyone.

AYWalton: Howdy Ingrid_Doweary.

seventies soulchild: lol daviss

daviss: hello AYWalton and Ingrid

3rdthawkins: hello Ingrid

seventies soulchild: Hi Ingrid

vkn: Author "At The Dark End of the Street" Danielle McGuire is discussing White men victimizing Black women. On Book TV at this moment at the Georgia Center for the Book in Decatur GA

Selma: Selma is feeling the effects of being on Babysitting duty tonite with the little "darlins"

daviss: that should be a good book vkn

seventies soulchild: How long is this to be on?

vkn: Good Saturday AYW Good Saturday Ingrid

seventies soulchild: Yes Selma, & had a little cousin over today as well. I can't do little kids anymore... lol

Selma: LOL...we did Halloween pumpkins

3rdthawkins: wb jhonora, didn't know you left

Spivey: Welcome back jhonora.

AYWalton: hope you are having a good day, vkn!

Selma: No cutting...you can push in funny eyes, noses and mouths..less messy

vkn: It is an interesting though painful listen daviss

AYWalton: I bet that is a painful listen. Book TV is wonderful, though. wassup jhonora? when is the event, is it next week at Xavier? I know it was soon.

Selma: Yes..it is painful to hear vkn

jhonora: Nothing much, AY, having a great conference.

vkn: The author is using audio of the women telling what happened to them

AYWalton: is it going on now.

vkn: Yes it is AYW

AYWalton: sounds interesting.

jhonora: Yes, Fri, Sat, Sun, ... Elizabeth Shown Mills spoke today, she is a member.

Ingrid_Doweary: I fell in love with C-Span's American Writers Series. It was so comprehensive.

AYWalton: how was she jhonora?

seventies soulchild: let me get on book tv now.

vkn: A dramatic approach she is employing with graphics to tell the story

AYWalton: sounds intense, for sure, vkn.

vkn: Indeed it is

jhonora: She was good. She spoke on Finding Coincoin, matriarch of the Cane River community.

AYWalton: Ahh yes, Marie Terese Coin Coin Metoyer!! I have a friend whose husband was connected to Coin Coin.

Ingrid_Doweary: I just turned Book TV on.

AYWalton: the Vaughns come out of that community.

seventies soulchild: ok I'm watching online now.

daviss: nite folks, may be back later

seventies soulchild: http://www.booktv.org/Live/C-SPAN2.aspx

vkn: Give us input Seventies

jhonora: We also had speakers on language, music, different civil parishes, a panel with Chef Leah Chase, and native Creole speakers.

Selma: It sounds like you had a full plate jhonora

seventies soulchild: They are talking about the Joane Little case. Quick note: Black in America is on again. . .

jhonora: We've had a great time thus far, Selma, especially Friday antebellum reception.

vkn: AYW the author is a History Prof at Wayne State

seventies soulchild: Right. Interesting

vkn: They are doing Q & A now

seventies soulchild: Its funny though, I mean, sisters have been saying this same thing for decades... Centuries. why are we always the subject of someone's study?

3rdthawkins:

people say I'm the life of the party because I tell a joke or two hello Amos

Ingrid_Doweary: Jhonora, What was the Antebeillum reception about

vkn: Seventies she is aligning it to the Civil Rights movement ie Montgomery etc Good Saturday Amos

seventies soulchild: Yes this is something sisters have been talking about for years. . . sexism within the Civil Rights Movement.

AmosNY: Greetings Hawkins,Angela,Ingrid,Jhonora,Selma,SeventiesSoulchild,Spivey, and VKN.

3rdthawkins:

i may be laughing out loud, but deep inside I'm blue

AmosNY: 3rdthawkins ,why so blue?

vkn: Spivey nice photos on AfriGeneans talking

3rdthawkins: not blue AmosNY just bored

seventies soulchild: It was so bad at one time with this type of behavior black women didn't have a choice but to become paramours or their lives were in danger of being taken.

Spivey: Thanks vkn. I still miss that old library building. It was beautiful.

AmosNY: The song says "gray skies are going to cheer up, put on a happy face."

vkn: The contrast is as you reported

Spivey: I am reading the story of Ida B Wells, Seventies Soulchild, and she encountered gender bias among Black men even back in her day. I consider it an abomination vkn.

seventies soulchild: Of course, why do you think that they kicked her out of the NAACP? Too black too strong!

AmosNY: What are you talking about with gender bias?

3rdthawkins: vkn, we really have to have a chat that focuses and centers on genealogy, it can make it a lot better

Spivey: I think they're discussing some program on television AmosNY. I just made a comment that Wells encountered the same thing way back when.

AYWalton: hey there AmosNY. I had stepped away from the computer and did not see you slip in.

seventies soulchild: ok I'm pooped. Thanks for the info on the show. Have a good night all

vkn: 3rd in a generic sense it is all genealogy when we begin to put 'meat' on names places and dates.

AYWalton: Jhonora, so what was E Mills saying about her search for CoinCoin?

3rdthawkins: yeah, but when we are talking about Tv shows and people that has nothing to do with it, it gets boring for others who are more focused on genealogy

AYWalton: and I thought there was already a lot of info about her. 3rd, flexibility is a wonderful trait.

Selma: Well I happen to like putting things in a historical perspective..that is the only what the genealogical research we do make sense

AYWalton: And history is a part of our focus as well.

3rdthawkins: Seems more like black genealogy, because that's all you're focusing on instead of genealogy period

AYWalton: And sometimes chats might get dry for one and stimulating for another. That is the nature of the beast.

3rdthawkins: What does what someone else said or did have to do with your research

Selma: There are many other places to chat

AYWalton: How's it going up in NY Amos?

3rdthawkins: Got that right Selma

AYWalton: I was there a few weeks ago, and gave a presentation at the Smithsonian.

vkn: 3rd when many of our Grands are silent when asked about their lives we need to have a context from which that silence may spring.

AmosNY: Its good. It got a little windy but not cold.

AYWalton: yes same here, a pretty day, but truly an autumn day.

3rdthawkins: Understood vkn, but it seems there's more chat about that than anything else

Selma: More chat about what?

vkn: Person place and time

Ingrid_Doweary: Are you referring to the tv program or the discussion of the tv program?

AYWalton: well 3rd, when it is no longer stimulating, you are always free to bring up an interesting topic to see if others are interested. And if not--that's ok too, it is nature of chatting online. and for general genealogy there are GenealogyWise chats. I am sure you would find that they they seldom discuss black issues since most of them are not of African ancestry.

Ingrid_Doweary: Jhonora what happens in an antebellum reception?

3rdthawkins: Yes, I truly like that, I get tired of hearing the complaining

AYWalton: and AfriGeneas is an African-centered domain. I bet jhonora is multi-tasking! lol

Ingrid_Doweary: Probably.

vkn: I am riveted by the Book TV discussion as the people being highlighted are people I knew/know

AYWalton: that makes it very interesting, I am sure, vkn!

vkn: Plus I am a bookTV addict

jhonora: Sorry, ingrid, we just had food&bev and our annual reports. But in antebellum clothes and a bunch of bowing and courtseying and bonsoirs.

Ingrid_Doweary: Oh you are an eyewitness to 20th century history unfolding, Vkn.

Selma: Kissing on both cheeks jhonora

Spivey: 3rdthawkins, have you spoken with jhonora about Catholic naming traditions?

AYWalton: and speaking old world "your obedient servant" kind of English, huh jhonora?

Ingrid_Doweary: Oh akay, thanks Jhonora. I was curious.

3rdthawkins: No, forgot about that, thx for reminding me Spivey

AYWalton: ok jhonora, did you get all dressed up antebellum style?

vkn: I am an unfolding of 20th century Ingrid. remember I was born in 1928 lol

AYWalton: If so, you HAVE to send us a picture!

jhonora: Yes, we have pictures. Visiting tour groups stopped to photograph us.

AYWalton: ok are you blogging this? pictures, young man, we need pictures!!

3rdthawkins: oh, I think I know where alt is, and he might come in a little down, so you all have to ask him how Ohio State did lol lol rofl

AYWalton: and how are you dressed?

Ingrid_Doweary: lol Then History is constantly unfolding around you, Vkn. lol

jhonora: I'm going to get some tomorrow from our board chair/photo taker.

vkn: Email some photos to me Jhonora and we can post to the Creole forum

3rdthawkins: jhonora, I wanted to ask you about Catholic naming patterns. I have family members who were Catholic add baptized with one name but used a different name in life

jhonora: Several men including myself in tails, ladies in hoop skirts and bonnets and hats. One man with cane and top hat. We used ancestral names if known.

AYWalton: So what name are you using, jhonora?

vkn: A re enactment jhonora

AYWalton: and are you communicating in French as well?

jhonora: Joseph Sabin Arthur Braud, my g-g-g-grandfather.

AYWalton: are you connected to Breaux folks as well, jhonora?

jhonora: Yes, to some Breaux, Braud, and Brow.

vkn: 3rd have you researched naming patterns?

3rdthawkins: no don't know how to

vkn: You may want to do some cursory research 3rd. Will be glad to send you a point of reference. Could help frame your query

AYWalton: jhonora, I had stepped away earlier. What was EMills saying about CoinCoin?

Ingrid_Doweary: Wow, Vkn! I just heard the author's answer to a question in which she said she wonderful what it was the white athletes would call for and pay for any women to dance for them.

3rdthawkins: didn't want to research it vkn, just wanted to know about it

Spivey: This is painful.

jhonora: AY, She found sources of the many myths about her. Personally, kind of sick of hearing about Coincoin.

3rdthawkins: that's what I mean, we can't have a genealogy discussion, but you send people away

AYWalton: so was there anything new that she revealed?

vkn: I am listening Ingrid wow is right

Ingrid_Doweary: Hopefully, 3rd your knowledge base on Catholic naming patterns will aid you in your overall genealogy research.

jhonora: No, just old research, went into methodology.

AYWalton: One of our goals is to assist people in conducting their research, not to give them the answers, so they don't have to do anything.

jhonora: 3rd, you've been studying Cath. naming practice?

3rdthawkins: Yeah, in my family history thought it was interesting that folks baptized with a name but used a different one, wanted to know why is that

AYWalton: That is not necessarily a Catholic thing.

AmosNY: I have found in my maternal family a passing down of names to more than one generation. One of my brother's middle name comes from my maternal gfather and ggfather's first names.

3rdthawkins: good to know AY

AYWalton: My folks in SW Arkansas all have given names but used another name, often.

3rdthawkins: not talking about nicknames though

AYWalton: neither am I.

3rdthawkins: ok

AYWalton: wb Ingrid! did you get bumped? did you get bumped, Ingrid?

Ingrid_Doweary: Sorry about that, was multitaking. Thanks AY and Spivey

3rdthawkins: jhonora I heard that a person would be given a name at birth but name would change to appease a relative at baptism

AYWalton: that is also an African tradition---at least among the Yorubas.

jhonora: Not exactly. The appeasement part might be true for nicknames. Parents selected names according to their wishes and traditions.

AYWalton: My husband has several uncles and aunts who call him by a different name, and these are different from the name at his naming ceremony.

3rdthawkins: do you think it was brought into Catholic church by those African descents in the US? Aywalton

AYWalton: Not necessarily.

3rdthawkins: My family were members of a black catholic church ok

vkn: 3rd you may find it more productive to post a query to the forum and then schedule for a chat discussion.

AYWalton: I grew up Catholic, but my relatives in SW Arkansas are AMEs and Baptists.

3rdthawkins: So it's not necessarily a Catholic thing, I wonder why that is in my family

jhonora: Where, out of curiosity, 3rd?

AYWalton: Well, folks I am going to call it a night. Have a great evening everyone!

3rdthawkins: Wanted to know jhonora because it is not like one or two it is several and I want to know if it's something to that

vkn: u 2

jhonora: Where (loc.) was this, 3rd?

3rdthawkins: Charleston, SC

Ingrid_Doweary: Did the computer freeze?

jhonora: 3rd, to give you an example. My g-g-g-uncle was born Joseph Drauzin Toussaint Honora. He called himself Drauzin. Everybody called him Tou-Tou.

Spivey: Not mine Ingrid_Doweary.

Ingrid_Doweary: okay.

AmosNY: Good night all!

3rdthawkins: this is what I am talking about jhonora, my great grandmother Ella Ann Sanders was baptized Ella Elizabeth (which explains why her name was not on her BC) also her sister was baptized Ernestine Adelaide but her middle initial is S, which I believe stands for Stanislaus my grandfather baptized as Thomas Levy (his paternal grandfather was Levy Hawkins) but he used Thomas Aloysius (his maternal grandfather was Thomas Aloysius Hawkins) those are a few examples correction his maternal grandfathe was Thomas Aloysius Sanders

jhonora: As you can see, Elizabeth, Ann, Stanislaus, and Aloysius are all baptismal patrons. Probably got another one at confirmation. Its common 3rd, I'm Jari Christopher Louis Honora. My sister has three names too.

3rdthawkins: ahh that's what I wanted to know

Ingrid_Doweary: Well good nite all. Catch up with you all next time.

3rdthawkins: nite ingrid I did understand that there were saints also that they were named after. There was a Rev. at St Peter's who was Aloysius, I think that is where my grgr gf got his middle name

Spivey: jhonora, may I ask what the term 'baptism patron' mean?

jhonora: How long were they Cath., 3rd?

3rdthawkins: probably since the end of CW or before, not really sure

jhonora: Maybe owned by Cath. owners?

3rdthawkins: perhaps wondered about that, I think David Patterson wrote a thread on that have to look more into that

jhonora: Probably Irish cath. owners, if not French migrants in SC.

3rdthawkins: ahhh, Irish, that always comes up in my research

jhonora: An often overlooked scene in Gone With the Wind is Mrs. O'Hara leading family in rosary with the slaves. Representative of how the faith went to many families. =black families, that is. I've been fortunate to find slave baptisms and confirmations back to late 1700s.

3rdthawkins: cool jhonora, that would be very interesting, good to know and something to look into

Spivey: A light just went off in my head. Naturally the slaves were not Baptist, Catholic, etc., so they were somewhat forced to assume the religious beliefs of their slave masters, having no power or resources to establish their own religion.

jhonora: The New Advent Encyclopedia at newadvent.org has an entry on patron saints. Spivey, I know of many slaves who were nominally Catholic but held their own services on Sunday evenings.. Some owners like Etienne de Bore led slaves in morning and evening prrayers from his porch.

vkn: jhonora good reference

jhonora: It's funny, I'm on our team at church to help teach (adult) converts, so they get to select confirmation patrons.

Spivey: Did their services follow the religion of their masters jhonora or were they a combination of memory and new practices?

jhonora: Many earlier slaves privately (or publicly with approval) kept their African practices. Many were nominally what Master said and actually something else. Many, like my family, really practiced their Master's faith.

Spivey: Thanks for the explanation jhonora. And thank you for taking the time to answer our questions jhonora.

3rdthawkins: yeah, thx jhonora

jhonora: Our local AME congregation actually had problems of fpc not wanting to give seats to freedmen.

Spivey: Oh, now that is a topic I don't think I will understand in one evening, jhonora: the difference between free people of color and freedmen.

jhonora: They did not mind admitting them to the congregation but wanted to build a separate sanctuary for them.

Spivey: Not gender bias, but religious bias? Or what kind of bias was that being practiced jhonora? Discrimination, prejudice?

jhonora: It was class bias. The AME Church was organized in this city by all fpc. They even helped (reportedly) on Und. RR. But after the war they did not want to be seated with the former slaves. The Episcopal Church has some good slave records I've seen.

Spivey: Class bias. Thanks jhonora. You've actually gotten to see these records?

jhonora: They were good record keepers. We presently have two historically black Episcopal Churches in south La. Before the war, Episcopalian owners baptized their slaves and also buried them sometimes in their plots.

Spivey: Oh, I never knew that jhonora. I always thought of slaves as being buried separately, in their own cemeteries. Graveyards, I should say.

jhonora: On plantations, yes, in many (maybe most) cases. But in religious cemeteries they are often interspersed or in separate sections of one cemetery.

Spivey: LOL. Sorry, jhonora, but I didn't even know there were actual cemeteries in those times.

jhonora: Because we (La.) resell tombs, we probably have hundreds of whites and blacks resting for eternity together.lol

Spivey: ROTFL. Oh, my goodness. I didn't know that either. Re-selling tombs huh? That is a lot of food for thought jhonora.

jhonora: Yes, after a family dies out or moves away or to a new tomb, with no interest in old tomb, they sell title to new family who bury theirs with the old family's folks.

Spivey: Does that cause some confusion in identifying where one's ancestors are buried jhonora?

jhonora: Well, sometimes title transfers are listed. But it can be hard when using a map, which shows owners at that time. You also have to check and see if due to a recent burial, your ancestor was buried in a friend or other relatives tomb. Generally, you can use a tomb until a year and a day after last burial. But ten years since we have such well-made caskets now. As you can tell, we take "leaving out" seriously. Go out in style, whether bum or banker!

Spivey: That is so interesting jhonora.

jhonora: vkn, were you able to locate that DuBose performer's name?

vkn: Yes I will send to you

Spivey: This has been an interesting part of the chat session. Thank you again jhonora. Goodnight. Goodnight 3rdthawkins and vkn. Go to bed, vkn. LOL.

vkn: Sorry I forgot to mail but will do so this night Jhonora

3rdthawkins: yes vkn, do you think I can get a transcript hawk_man72000@hotmail.com thx

jhonora: Goodnight y'all! Thanks vkn. 3rd, update us your progress on those folks.

vkn: See the daily log postings 3rd

jhonora: Night!

3rdthawkins: ok, will do jhonora, and thx for the info nite


18 Dec 2002 :: 1 Feb 2009
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