*LunchBunch

Start: 12:05:49
End: 13:43:15
Chatters: 3rdthawkins, alt, AmosNY, AYWalton, daviss, Ingrid_Doweary, Selma, Seventies Soulchild, Stephanie, vkn

3rdthawkins: hello daviss and alt

alt: hi 3rdthawkins & daviss

daviss: hello 3rd and alt!

alt: Y'all ready for the weekend? Football starts for real.

daviss: lol I am ready

3rdthawkins: fo' show' alt

alt: me too y'all

daviss: Sunday it really starts lol lol and hopefully my Ohio player Wells will be ready

3rdthawkins: We (Redskins) have our dream quarterback, and vicky having quarterback problems lol

alt: I hope "beanie" is ready and has a good year for ya daviss

daviss: no quarterback problems for us 3rd we have a quarterback

3rdthawkins: ok, hope he does well, Anderson hate to see the Cardinals go back to their usual selves

daviss: I think he will be playing alt

3rdthawkins: when everything was looking up for them

daviss: do you mean going to the playoffs 3rd lol

3rdthawkins: Super Bowl daviss and winning it

alt: Derek Anderson will look great one game and he'll be terrible the next.. hope for the Cards sake he can be consistent.

3rdthawkins: I have folks in AZ, so definitely rooting for the Cards

daviss: I believe that is the goal, and only two teams can get there

alt: and the Browns will be one of them LOL LOL LOL lOL LOL

3rdthawkins: they sure will alt, right in the stands lol

daviss: I hope so too and behind him when he does falter the rookie Hall will be just as capable

3rdthawkins: gotta get past Peyton Manning and the Colts

daviss: there is an old song that says" sometimes you gotta win, sometimes you gotta lose" which is a fact of life :?

alt: big game here is Saturday .. Ohio State vs Miami.. watch my homeboy for OSU #3 Brandon Saine, he is from Piqua, OH I know his grandparents...gee, am I getting old or what? LOL

3rdthawkins: I don't know, but we will let Peyton Manning and Tom Brady decide that oh, speaking of Ohio alt, I was wondering if you knew Jefferson Thomas?

daviss: shhhhhh 3rd they wont be the one to decide lol

3rdthawkins: he little rock 9

alt: no I didn't know him 3rdthawkins

daviss: That should be a good game alt

alt: I think so daviss

daviss: naww just think about it 3rd

3rdthawkins: oh, they will be daviss........ok alt, I was thinking he had same last name and living in the same state, wondered

daviss: so you are a Redskin fan 3rd?..

alt: nope 3rdthawkins, just that he was from the Little Rock 9 and that he lived in columbus, ohio ... I think.

3rdthawkins: Hometeam daviss

daviss: I wonder if my cousins husband is still with that organization..Charlie taylor

alt: 3rdthawkins, I'm so old that I remeber when the 'Skins got Bobby Mitchell from the Browns in a trade... I think he was the 1st ever AA to play for the "Skins. Charlie Taylor was a tremendous wide receiver.

daviss: he sure was alt

alt: he sued to kill the Browns LOL 'used'

daviss: I never saw him play pro in person but went to most ASU games

alt: q presentation question for y'all

daviss: ok alt!

3rdthawkins: heard of him alt, I grew up on Art Monk, Darrell Green, and the other receiver, I forget his name.........and oh yeah, Mark "Overthrow" Rypien

alt: away from the presentation when the presenter uses examples from his/her family genealogical research? does the presentation become less interesting when 'personal research' is injected?

daviss: oh not in my experience alt.. In fact most presentations that I have been privey too is what was used

AYWalton: Good afternoon, all. Hello 3rd, alt, daviss!!

alt: Hello AYWalton

AYWalton: hope you are all doing well.

daviss: They may have picked out the most entertaining or thought provoking but it works hello AYWalton Then you blend it in to fit the topic of the presentation

alt: Yeah daviss, I was wondering if 'personal examples' got in the way of the methodology one is attempting to present.

daviss: I would not think so alt because methodology is what got you there in the first place, family or no family

AYWalton: I think alt that it is the method----when done starts to tell the family story---and veers off into that direction completely---the presentation loses a lot. If one is citing an example----a brief example---then it does not lose. one does not even have to say---this is my grandfather---just say---here is a record from the Triplett family, show the process and keep going.

daviss: hello seventies

Seventies Soulchild: hello all

AYWalton: hey there SoulChile.

alt: hello Seventies Soulchild

Seventies Soulchild: what's new on the genealogy research?

alt: that's the 'key' AYWalton the example may be from one's personal research, but the audience doesn't need to know that..

AYWalton: but some folks forget that others are not interested in the DETAILS of your family history---but the PROCESS of solving a problem, or getting more information.

daviss: true

AYWalton: Just discussing presenting information, SoulChile.

alt: exactly, unless the presentation is about 'your' family ,, reference them as little as possible, if at all.

AYWalton: Some folks forget that an audience does not want to hear the specific details of who married whom, and who is the father of whom---they want to know HOW you got the data! quite true. Always remember---it is the PROCESS!!

daviss: Are you going to give another presentation soon alt

alt: not sure daviss, been asked to do a couple on FPOC research and also UGRR

daviss: that would be good alt because you are knowable on both topics

alt: where did everyone go AYWalton? scared them off????

AYWalton: I was wondering, myself. I know that Selma will be late today. I got an email from her.

alt: okay

AYWalton: I will be in Indianapolis in Spring 2011, by the way.

alt: I see the Indiana group is advertising their annual workshop in Oct.

AYWalton: at the Eitlejorg museum. oh really? Lots of groups now having their own conferences.

alt: their's is at the Eitlejorg also.

daviss: ok back . I forgot I was cooking bacon

AYWalton: oh gracious---don't burn down the house, now daviss!

daviss: once upon a time everyone was afraid that societies were drying up, is that still happening

AYWalton: I spoke once for them there several years ago---and you are right---it was at the Eiteljorg as well. my DNA cousin Charles Barker was president, at that time.

daviss: do you and Barker have an exact match

AYWalton: we are high resolution matches! so about 10 generations back we have the same ancestor. On his mother's side.

daviss: oh ok

alt: I've known charles for about 6=7 years now AYWalton.. he is really a nice person and so is Shirley his wife.

daviss: do you have anyone closer than 10

AYWalton: they are both very nice. I had a wonderful experience when I was there, and I was impressed with the things going on in Indiana.

alt: Family Finder has found a match for me in their database that is 'posed to be within 3 generations.. this is their autosomal DNA test.

daviss: what about you alt, do you have anyone closer than 10 generations on your DNA matches oh wow

alt: I have 7 matches in the FF database... they are all supposed to be within 5 generations.. somewhere in my family tree

daviss: family finder is with what company alt

alt: Ftdna daviss unfortunately all of these matches are 'white folks' .

AYWalton: who is Family Finder?

daviss: how do you know that alt

AYWalton: Greetings, VKN!!!!

daviss: hello vkn!

AYWalton: Alt did you up grade from the HVR2 test?

alt: that's the same as 23&me's relative finder ... they are with FTDNA AYWalton

Seventies Soulchild: hello vkn

daviss: wb seventies

vkn: and to you

Seventies Soulchild: Multi-tasking

alt: Yes AYWalton , I've had FTDNA do the HVR1/HVR2 full mtDNA sequence Hello vkn

daviss: I had a cousin test through FTDNA but now I am thinking that I will do that also

vkn: and alt and ayw and daviss

Seventies Soulchild: I put out the idea of our family doing a FTDNA test. So we'll see. . .

alt: FTDNA is one of the more reputable testing companies daviss and they have the ability to upgrade from the original sample.. of course with more money sent.

vkn: at ine point would you also do african ancestry alt

AYWalton: I agree, alt. I also recommend that one test a line that they have researched well.

vkn: at what point would you also do african ancestry alt

alt: I won't vkn unless they get into autosmal testing and can get to my African ancestry. right now they only do Y & mtDNA which for me is European

vkn: okies

AYWalton: that is wise, alt.

Seventies Soulchild: I was on their board a couple of days ago. They were defending their DNA database. No one has disputed, to my knowledge, their large database of African DNA.

AYWalton: I would suggest a line that you know to be an African one---to use African Ancestry.

daviss: so why would you have to go with them alt if Family Finder does autosomal

Seventies Soulchild: Agree AYWalton

daviss: not enough AA's in database

alt: I'll go with anyone that can get to my African roots daviss. FF & FTDNA or anyone else

AYWalton: you have to zoom in on a more African line, but with so many FPOCS--many of whom were also mixed that could be a challenge for many. particularly because many FPOCs intermarried in multiple generations.

Seventies Soulchild: I wonder if there is a database that is charting the migration of certain African ethnic groups through the U.S.?

AYWalton: so the mixtures are criss crossed.

daviss: no idea seventies

AYWalton: not sure what you mean, SoulChile.

alt: i do have a cousin who has found his African roots and tha tis my only lead to a possible African haplogroup.

AYWalton: But alt, you and your cousin don't have the same exact genealogy---and unless his direct male line is simlar to yours----there is no match.

vkn: Hey yall what hoppen to Francis Stephens and is there an addy for her

AYWalton: howdy Ms. Selma!!!

daviss: alt should have it vkn..

AYWalton: greetings AmosNY!

daviss: Hello Selma and AmosNY

vkn: Howdy amos

alt: I know AYWalton , his match would be thru the autosomal DNA as his line comes from my paternal grandmother's sibling lines.

Seventies Soulchild: Using people already tested say on Sorenson to map the various genetic groups from around the country then tracing their ethnic groups.

Selma: Howdy, Howdy folks... ( I sound like vkn)

vkn: lol

Seventies Soulchild: Like how many Fulani live in the south, or NY or etc etc

AmosNY: Hi alt,Angela,VKN,Selma, Daviss, SSoulchild!

AYWalton: since this country is so young---most people use DNA testing to find out more of their deeper ancestry.

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey everyone

Selma: Alt..AY...I have a friend with a DNA question..gonna see if I can get her on the phone

AYWalton: Howdy Ingrid_Doweary.

alt: hello Selma

AmosNY: Hello Ingrid!

Seventies Soulchild: Hi AmosNY, Ingrid_Doweary and Selma!

alt: and Ingrid_Doweary and AmosNY

vkn: Ingrid did I miss your call? My phone system is some timey

Seventies Soulchild: ok I have a headache and need to get back to work. Y'all have a good day!

Ingrid_Doweary: I didn't get the chance to call. Hopefully I can phone you this evening.

alt: Oops we caused Seventies Soulchild to have a headache LOL

AmosNY: Anybody here from Indianapolis?

daviss: not me

alt: I'm close AmosNY and do research there , perhaps I can help you.

vkn: alt and angela I have dna testing pending and every time I think I see the path clearly then it gets cluttered

Selma: Alt, AY..got a friend who wants to ask a DNA question..

alt: okay Selma shoot LOL

AmosNY: Just curious. I might be buying 4 houses there.

vkn: Is there an A B C

alt: vkn, try www.isogg.org for some DNA abc's

vkn: thankee

daviss: wb selma

AmosNY: Hi Stephanie!

daviss: hi stephanie

Selma: Folks this a friend of mine..

Stephanie: Hi everybody

alt: click on the 'for newbie button

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Stephanie

daviss: welcome Stephanie!

Stephanie: I have a DNA question.

alt: Hi Stephanie..

AYWalton: hello Stephanie, and welcome back Selma!

vkn: i shall alt

Selma: Folks Stephanie has a DNA question she would like to ask

Stephanie: What parts of the family need to do the DNA test to determine if they are related? I have a female and male descendant of brother and sister.

Selma: Alt and AY..I told her you could answer.. LOL

AYWalton: (can't handle the pressure Selma! ) lol Stephanie it sounds as if you already know that they are related.

Stephanie: They would be my cousin's relatives. No responses? Is the question clear?

alt: any direct male relation to the brother will get both Y & mtDNA Stephanie

AYWalton: what are you hoping to learn again?

Stephanie: The person in question is supposed to be a step-father, not biological. He carried his Step-father's name

AYWalton: ahh.....but they share a female ancestor then, correct?

alt: that is only for direct line though Stephanie.. father to son to son, etc.

Stephanie: Not my family, my cousin's family.

AYWalton: Keeping in mind that most DNA tests go up a straight unbroken line----one has to find relatives that descend from both in an unbroken line. So if I understand it correctly..... the male cousin--in relation to the female cousin---if they share the same female ancestor, then it will be reflected. BUT I might have to see the history on paper.

alt: hold on

Stephanie: Zara is the sister to Ben, Ben is the step-father to Charles. Charles has a grandson who will take the test. Zara has a great-granddaughter who will take the test. Will that work?

Selma: Are Zara and Ben 1/2 siblings, same mother, but suppose to be different Dads

Stephanie: There is a direct male descendant in Charles's family who can take the test. I have to find out how the female descendant of Zara is related.

AYWalton: hold on-----let me sketch this out in a pedigree style.

Stephanie: Same parents

AYWalton: ok wait---Zara and Ben are full brother and sister?

Stephanie: Yes

Selma: You think BEN is actually the father of Charles.. NOT the stepfather

Stephanie: yes, strong family resemblance to what would be a male first cousin.

alt: the line is broken with Ben & stepson .. from there you will get a different line... now the haplogroup may be the same, but it is not a direct father to son to son to son relationship.

Stephanie: Don't know the term haplogroup

AYWalton: ok so who is the outside child (or suspected to be the outside child?)

Selma: Alt..is on the phone Stephanie

alt: haplogroup is the 'major' breakout for lineages.

Stephanie: outside child would be Charles.

AYWalton: aha ok----and who is the father (of record?)

alt: genetic genealogy will NOT prove or Disprove paternity.

Stephanie: None of Charles' children know for sure who his father was.

AYWalton: Charles is the stepson of Ben, right?

Stephanie: We just want to confirm if there is a bloodline connection to the family. These people are deceased. yes

alt: actual DNA paternity test will prove paternity and that is different from Y & mtDNA for for genealogical purposes.

Ingrid_Doweary: Perhaps this link may also be helpful, Stephanie http://www.familytreedna.com/understanding-haplogroups.aspx

AYWalton: ok now----you want to know Charles relationship to his other sisters and brothers?

Stephanie: No, he was an only child.

AYWalton: so what about Charles do you want to know?

alt: good link Ingrid_Doweary ... and also try www.isogg.org

Stephanie: Just want to know if there is a possibility Ben could have been the father if the families share DNA???

Ingrid_Doweary: Thanks Alt for your link as well.

AYWalton: sounds like that is one of those things that genetic genealogy won't answer.

Stephanie: ok, thanks anyway.

AYWalton: and without a paternity test---which is a totally different kind of thing--- genealogists are doing genetic genealogy.

alt: they may share 'haplogroups', but that won't prove direct family relationships.

AYWalton: Paternity tests follow other variables.

Stephanie: Ok, I'll let them know. Appreciate your help.

AYWalton: they also study blood type and other things that would confirm or refute parental ties.

daviss: so if the grandson of charles and the great granddaughter of zena tested and they have the same haplogroup match what would that prove

AYWalton: we do historic family history with DNA.

alt: right AYWalton, we're into the differences between the types of DNA testing that can be done

AYWalton: not much---except that their ancestors are from the same part of the world, daviss.

Selma: But wouldn't it show some similar genetic coding...

Stephanie: So possible "cousins" can have blood tests done to see if they are related???

alt: nothing really daviss ... not from a 'family' connection

AYWalton: you can have 4 folks from the same country, same town, same city and with different blood types. And who are possibly NOT related in any way. keep in mind--we do ANCESTRY with our kind of DNA testing.

alt: and the reverse is true

AYWalton: not testing for paternity relatives, although some of our tests might reflect it, that is not their purpose.

Stephanie: Did anybody answer my last question yet?

AYWalton: Unless there is some of Charles DNA still around, no way to test with other living relatives in any way as I understand it. did Charles have sons?

Stephanie: Ok. Yes he had sons, 12 children.

AYWalton: now did the suspected father also have sons?

alt: Stephanie.. DNA is not really 'blood tests', only white blood cells have DNA. DNA can be done with Saliva, skin cells, hair samples, etc.

Stephanie: No other children that I know of, but I know only one person from that family who is interested in the family history. She is Zara's descen.

AYWalton: so the suspected father---whom I assume is also deceased---there are no male heirs in his line?

Stephanie: I don't know.. no census showing him with previous 2 wives or children.

alt: and Zara's DNA can only be tested for 'direct' female lines

Stephanie: no Zara can be tested for male or female

AYWalton: the only way to tell if they might share ancestry is for a direct male descendant of the suspected father to also take a genetic DNA test. That might prove a relationship----though not parentage. because they really could be cousins as well. females do not have the traceable marker that fathers pass to their sons.

Stephanie: Relationship is good enough, because he was the only familial contact.

AYWalton: does or did Zara have a brother?

Stephanie: So Zara's line can use a male or female descendant and Charles' line needs a direct male descendant?

daviss: other than Ben you mean

Stephanie: Zara's brother is the Ben in question.

AYWalton: oh that's right---ok did Ben have sons? who are still living?

alt: the male would have to have the same mtDNA that Zara would have and that would not prove a 'familial' relationship only a possible genetic relationship.

Stephanie: yes, other than Ben Ben is the susp. father, not descen.

alt: Mydna=mtdna

AYWalton: ok did Ben have sons---other than Charles?

Stephanie: We don't know of any other children from Ben.

Selma: OK lets do this line by line..

alt: Stephanie, I don't think genetic DNA will help you in this situation..

Selma: Ben is identified as the biological father of Charles and Zara?

Stephanie: Do what line by line??

AYWalton: I thought Zara was Ben's sister!

Stephanie: No, Ben and Zara are brother and sister sharing same parents.

Selma: OK I will shut up.. LOL

AYWalton: ok, that's right Ben and Zara are siblings. Same mother same father. (right?)

Stephanie: I am in contact with a female desc. of Zara. My cousins are Charles' descen.

AYWalton: it sounds interesting, for sure.

Stephanie: Ok. You guys continue, I've tied you up enough on this topic. What are the other topics of the day?

alt: same mother.. Ben & Zara will have the same mtDNA. but again this doesn't "prove" maternity. only the same genetic lineage

daviss: we actually were on DNA stephanie

Stephanie: ok

AYWalton: well folks I have to run.

alt: laters'

AYWalton: have a great day everyone.

daviss: bye AY

Stephanie: All we want is same genetic lineage. It could only have come through Ben to Charles.

Selma: Stephanie..if you send me an email later with the details I can forward

Stephanie: Ok Selma, thanks.

daviss: and Stephanie please join us from time to time

Stephanie: Thank you. Selma told me about the group last night.

alt: good idea Selma... Stephanie genetic DNA MAY prove a connection, but not paternity/maternity.

Selma: I told her we have no lives..we are here all the time...LOL

Ingrid_Doweary: LOL

daviss: thats right Selma lol

Selma: Stephanie has some interesting research...she will have to come back and share sometime

daviss: uhhhh any Texas lines lol

alt: please do come back Stephanie, if you're from VA we might be cousins cause Selma says ALL roads lead to VA. LOL and I have some long ago VA routes LOL

Selma: You there Stephanie?

Ingrid_Doweary: Where are you based, Stephanie?

alt: routes=roots LOL

daviss: uh oh ahe's learning fast lol multitasking

Selma: I think she might have gone..but didn't log out

alt: I'm gone time for Tennis & Golf on the tube.

Ingrid_Doweary: Cya Alt

daviss: ok alt GO Cardinals

Selma: OK she's back

Stephanie: I just took a phone call, and have to look back at what has been said.

alt: email me with the 'lineup' Selma

Selma: OK alt.

Stephanie: My cousin's line is Texas on her father's side. I did a little on her Family Elliot

daviss: Whew! now thats what I want to hear lol

Stephanie: I am from Virginia, and most of my family is VA and NC

Ingrid_Doweary: Okay thanks

daviss: What are your surnames Stephanie if I might ask

Stephanie: So many..NC names: Baily, Jackson, Shade, Hemphill, Burleson, Weatherman and Sharp/e

daviss: I have to run myself but please come back. Nice meeting you

Stephanie: VA names: Adams, Smith, Beverly, Washington, Sharp/e, Henderson,

daviss: Will see you all Sat night

Stephanie: nice meeting you, thanks

Selma: Stephanie...we are closing up shop

Ingrid_Doweary: Cya Daviss

Stephanie: bye

Selma: Just x out

Ingrid_Doweary: Next time folks

Selma: Bye INgrid