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2014-04-07 • Roundhead & Substitute

*LunchBunch

Start: 12:09:41
End: 13:12:11
Chatters: alt, AYWalton, daviss, Selma

Selma: Afternoon folks...where are you? Afternoon alt

alt: Hi Selma, just the two of us .. again LOL wonder what's happening with OUR folks?

Selma: Must be on early summer vacation

alt: I reckon... course we know vkn is busy with here preparations for moving, but the others, they’ll need an excuse when they do appear. LOL

AYWalton: Good afternoon, all. hi alt, hey Mizz Selma!

Selma: Afternoon AY

alt: okay AYWalton ... where you been??? LOL LOL and hello AYWalton

AYWalton: been around.

alt: okay LOL

AYWalton: ...........and tending to a tender mouth. Had oral surgery last week. so I have been mending, and eating soft foods. :(

Selma: Oh you poor thing..at least in the chat you don't have to use your mouth.. LOL I have a Roundhead question AY..what is a "Roundhead" remember last week I was talking about a USCT who enlisted

AYWalton: it was a small group of soldiers---the name was kind of a nickname---let me find a good reference for you. the name actually came from Europe, but one of the Union regiments used that name.

Selma: This soldier enlisted in DC..was enrolled in the 31st infantry He was a "substitute" and was enlisted for a year..

AYWalton: http://www.amazon.com/Scratch-Rebels-Pennsylvania-Roundhead-Carolinas-ebook/dp/B00I4YU1D0 I shall find better links also for you Selma. I think the 100th Pennsylvania used that name. Nellie Chase traveled with them down south and served as a nurse. She witnessed first hand some of the slaves in the south as they learned of their freedom. (Nellie was white.)

Selma: Ok..just wondering, apparently the person he substituted for a person who was suppose to be mustered in in the 4th Ohio District So much information to absorb

alt: that's what confuses me about this situation Selma... A Black from Ohio enlisiting as a 'substitute' in DC.

Selma: No..he was from Virginia, don't think he was in Ohio...

alt: okay, where did the Ohio connection come into palay?

Selma: I Had to reread all this info carefully..he was from Tidewater area of Virginia..made it to DC, where he mustered in..but said to be a "substitute" for someone from Ohio

AYWalton: I think once a man was an "approved" there was simply a paper transaction--so they would pluck from the large list of volunteers--the largest being the USCT's after 1863. Just my thoughts about it, though.

alt: and he served in a USCT unit. wonder if he was substituting for an Ohio Black?

AYWalton: I don't know. Were there many (any) Blacks who had substitutes?

Selma: The substitute volunteer enlistment form says.."He is of lawful age, able to perform duties of able bodied soldier, and as a Substitute in liew of New J. Carter liable to be drafted in 4th District of Ohio.

AYWalton: I have never looked at the persons for whom many black men substituted. That would be an interesting project. I know in Missouri, lots of whites had black substitutes. Many of these were also slave holders, and they later were paid bounty.

alt: not to my knowledge.. since Ohio Blacks were not drafted, but enlisted voluntarily, how would there be a substitution .

Selma: This took place August 15, 1864

alt: is that right ...Missouri

AYWalton: The slave holder who gave the "permission" for the slave to enlist was the one who got the bounty.

alt: there are all types of special conditions, so we live and learn LOL

AYWalton: In many cases in the Civil War Pension file--to prove that they were the owner of the slave, receipts for the purchase of the slave can be found in the Civil War service record. Hmm.........I need to blog about that. note---just made a mistake---not the pension file----I should have said in the Civil War Service record. So you can see these on Fold3, with soldiers who were from Missouri. so many untold stories out there.

alt: guess I need to familarize myself with the 'substitution' process during the CW.... who could sub for whom and from where could the subs orginate.

AYWalton: a good question, alt.

alt: look out

AYWalton: I have never paid lots of attention to it either. howdy daviss!!!!!

alt: Look out Bennie, you're about to get a phone call this afternoon LOL LOL

Selma: I leave that to you alt and AY..I am just trying to figure out where the heck he was born in VA..on the birth certificate for one of his children it says Northfalk, which I am 99% sure is Norfolk

AYWalton: who are you talking about Selma?

alt: okay Selma, my questions for Bennie.... Roundheads & Substitution, right?

Selma: Horace ARtist..who finally lands up in Wisconsin by 1866..

AYWalton: Northfalk could also be someplace called Northfork.

Selma: No..he also names another Tidewater area..so I am pretty sure he was here

AYWalton: we have a Northfork Colored Town in the Muscogee Creek Nation.

Selma: Union Army takes over Norfolk in 1862..

AYWalton: What unit was he in, Selma?

Selma: 31st

AYWalton: wassup daviss? You mighty quiet!

Selma: I have his service record Afternoon daviss

AYWalton: alt is taking notes and you gotta have your excuse slip.

Selma: Infantry

daviss: I am just getting sand out of eyes and reading what you guys are talking about stretching and yawning and thats about it

AYWalton: Selma so your guy was an FPC, right?

alt: vkn & her possible interview with the BBC sounds exciting, huh?

AYWalton: yes, I love it! Can't wait to hear it! She should tape the taping!

Selma: No that I am not exactly sure of..technically "contraband"..although Artis/Artis in this area were free prior to emancipation..heck that surname appears in Heinneg in 1687

AYWalton: I saw a note on the Service record.

alt: and we have Artis/Artiss/Artist in Ohio from about 1830 forward coming from the VA/NC areas

Selma: Yes..I saw that too AY... On that card..

AYWalton: interesting.

Selma: On the miscellaneous papers they were questioning whether he was "contraband"..said it really didn't matter he was suitable to enlist

daviss: I wonder if that line goes all the way to Ron Artiste the bb player

alt: was contraband a universal term for blacks in the south entering the USCT regardless of Free, or formerly enslaved?

Selma: and his wife was a Corbin alt

alt: we have those too Selma LOL

AYWalton: I think "freedman" is the more universal term.

alt: okay AYWalton

AYWalton: Contraband I think refers to people who were self-emancipated and residing in one of the "camps".

Selma: In many instances there is an effort to specify..whether "free" prior or use Slave

AYWalton: At least that is how I interpret the terms.

alt: I would think so Selma it seems that those from the South who were in the 54th & 55th Mass Infantry units were recognized as "fromerly enslved" vs those from the North as Free Blacks.

Selma: And he could have been in one of those camps in Norfolk before going to DC..

alt: off the subject, but y'all ever hear of the surname Duesenbury for Blacks?

Selma: He also says he married on Jan 1, 1860..even names a minister

alt: sounds like an FPOC to me

AYWalton: Well I have Quesenberry's and they were slaves.

alt: is there a denomination for the minister?

Selma: Hey alt..black folks can have all kinds of names.. LOL

AYWalton: They had Missouri roots then, ended up in Arkansas. And I grew up with a childhood friend Michael Metzenheimer. And the president of my university is Freeman Hrawbowski—Black man from Birmingham.

Selma: Does that answer your question alt.. LOL

AYWalton: he was in Spike Lee's movie" Four Little Girls" the documentary about the church bombing.

alt: I know Selma... this one was from NC and were enslaved by the Duesenbury family Cateret (sp) County and later they were in eastern NC around Craven Co.

AYWalton: and we was a child Civil Rights activist, and went to jail at the age of 12 as a Civil rights protestor. we = he (talking about Hrabowski) so those surnames reflect all kinds of slave holder backgrounds.

alt: yeah AYWalton, I've seen him on C-Span a couple of times.... very impressive man.

AYWalton: that could be an interesting study. he is brilliant, a mathematician, and founder of the Meyerhoff program for gifted students.

Selma: Another study to add to the 1,000..we are already contemplating AY

AYWalton: that's right. we need to compile a list and invite any/all folks to take the ideas and run with them. not that we have anything else to do, mind you.

Selma: Thats what I mean AY.. lOL

alt: oh, if y'all watch March Madness (basketball) on TV.. a female announcer Allie LaForce is a descendant of the slave owning family of my enslaved ancestors by the LaForce's of Goochland Co. VA

AYWalton: Interesting, alt.

Selma: Wow alt...send her a message on Facebook, that should start a discussion

AYWalton: I have not followed any of the games, and have no idea who is in the final four, (or six) (or eight), but I know that lots of folks do. you should post it on your regular time line, alt just make a comment about it.

alt: I'm trying to get her to do some DNA testing with 23andme to see if we possibly 'relate' LOL

AYWalton: see what happens.

Selma: Even I know they are down to the final 2 tonight..right alt..

AYWalton: lol so you all are in touch?

alt: yep, to both Selma & AYWalton

AYWalton: are they Selma? Well now I know. lol that's cool, alt.

Selma: Now I don't know what "2" teams they are.. LOL

alt: they had her email address on the TV as she was interviewing some players, I wrote to her and she responded

AYWalton: well I had better run, folks. Gonna do some of those tasks that I have on my to do list. Have a great day everyone.

Selma: Oh..she responded..wow

alt: yeah Selma, ain't that sumpin'

Selma: Is she gonna do a DNA test

alt: dunno, but I've planted the seed... her father's line goes back to the Rene LaForce family lines

Selma: Wow...maybe you 2 will land up on Gates show..wouldn't that be something.. LOL

alt: so they have some genealogy, family history in their background

Selma: We keep telling you alt..You DA Man.. LOL

alt: cousin Skip LOL... I told y'all that he hasn't responded to my connection with his father's maternal line.. sent CeCe Moore of the Genetic Genealogist to 'research' the matter LOL

Selma: LOl I gotta run..

alt: he be's too busy LOL

Selma: LOL talk to you later...

alt: okay, later y'all

Selma: Bye daviss..where ever you are..

daviss: sheesh bumped again


18 Dec 2002 :: 1 Feb 2009
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