*LunchBunch

Start: 12:07:00
End: 13:11:45
Chatters: alt, Daviss, Khathu, Seventies, vkn

alt: hello Daviss,

Daviss: hello and good afternoon alt! How have you been?

alt: doing fine, hope you are okay.

Daviss: I am well alt thanks

alt: Hi Seventies, how are ya?

Daviss: hi seventies

Seventies: Good afternoon alt and Daviss. Doing well alt. How are you? How are you Daviss?

Daviss: Daviss is fine thank you

alt: I'm okay, just a little slow today.

Daviss: a little nifty here I might add

Seventies: Hope you can get some pep in your step soon alt.

alt: what is nifty? LOL

Seventies: So no more headache?

Daviss: lol alt 45 is nifty

Seventies: lol Okay

alt: dunno Seventies, but I'll try 'most' anything LOL LOL

Daviss: so should I have said darn near freezing

Seventies: Anything new on the genealogical side? Any new records released to the internet?

Daviss: not here seventies

Seventies: I still hadn't prepped for my research fully yet.

Daviss: I am sure something has been released but not in my area of research

Seventies: Just did my schedule last night, though I suspect there will be some changes.

alt: well, at least you've got a schedule Seventies

Seventies: I'm hoping to spend three full days at the National Archives between Christmas eve and New Years.

Daviss: You asked me about Texas probate records and I told you that they were online and I had been looking at them '

Seventies: I know my family in the area VA/MD will want to see me. Okay did you find anything interesting?

Daviss: well to start off there were non online in Grimes County

Seventies: That conversation prompted me to look at Probate records in Alabama and Mississippi. Well glance at them

Daviss: and they stopped in the years I need in Harrison County'

Seventies: Unfortunate. What about afterwards. Do you think you could find some descendants information there?

Daviss: there is no afterwards in harrison county lol

Seventies: oh.. okay

Daviss: but I did glance through

Seventies: So there are quite a bit of types of probates available in MS depending on the county. Which I find interesting. *quite a few*

Daviss: just for the sake of glancing

alt: that's the thing about Probate records..... they are so specific and for certain periods of time for selected ancestors.. kind of hit & miss

Seventies: Okay

Daviss: yep

Seventies: Even what they put online varies from county to county. I'm trying to figure out how I missed some of the items in Adams Co.

alt: have y'all ever looked at Civil Court & criminal records for counties you're researching?

Daviss: Is Adams a large county

Seventies: I have and was quite lost alt.

Daviss: I have tried alt

Seventies: Seems as if there is no organization system for what I may have been looking to find... I did read a good case regarding a man who was sued because he failed to pay the bank. He ran off to Illinois I believe

alt: yeah, those are where you just 'browse' cause you never know when you might something/anything on family.

Seventies: the case was around 1091 He failed to pay the bank and some other investors.

Daviss: et tu brutus lol

Seventies: lol funny I meant 1901

Daviss: lol lol and just think some say I am losing my sense of humor

Seventies: Ok I see that Family Search added a search called BillionGraves.

alt: is that right

Daviss: yep

Seventies: Yes. I also see records for Northern California.. that may be of interest to you alt.

alt: okay Seventies, thanks

Seventies: You're welcome

alt: looks like a 'newer' version of Find a Grave

Seventies: okay

alt: I see the information is volunteer generated.

Seventies: I see also Indiana marriages added this month up to 1959

Daviss: yes alt I would agree just a different name

alt: that might be of interest .. Indiana Marriages

Khathu: hello

Seventies: let me post the link. Hey Khathu

alt: Hello Khathu

Khathu: Hey everyone

Daviss: G'afternoon Khathu

alt: any new information 'gleaned' from the Will you were speaking of Khathu?

Khathu: alt and Seventies - I didn't read the will closely after a more detailed read John R. Dorsey does mention that his sons were "colored but born out of his bone and flesh."

Seventies: http://tinyurl.com/d529e8a oh interesting statement.

Daviss: I plugged in a couple of names on Billion but came up with nada.they are listed on Find a grave though

Khathu: also one of the witnesses was the son-in-law of M. S. Taylor who is mentioned as the best friend

alt: that's a pretty deep confession Khathu "out of his bone & flesh'

Seventies: alt that's the link for the indiana marriages 1811-1959

alt: thanks Seventies

Khathu: Also his M. S. Taylor owned several enslaved individuals in Pike County, Alabama in 1860 Both of the witnesses of the will were from up north and the mid-west NY and IN

Seventies: I got 'chopped' lol

Khathu: that is all i have gleamed from the records so far wb seventies

Seventies: okay inte

alt: I guess the 1860 Slave Schedule would shed some light on the folks mentioned in the Will Khathu

Seventies: interesting.

Khathu: the will was written 3 years before he died. They all migrated to Texas during or after the CW

alt: this sounds like a 'bountiful' document Khathu

Khathu: Not so sure about John R. Dorsey

Seventies: It does.

alt: vicky thanks for the mention of the Vietnam Memorial Wall on the Forums

Daviss: How many slaves are named in that will khathu you are welcome alt

Khathu: None Daviss the will is post-reconstruction but the sons were born during slavery in Texas Three sons are named Henry, Texas and Richard.

Seventies: Its interesting that these witnesses came from NY and IN to Texas.

Khathu: I post poned researching this line because I was more interested in my African ancestry

Seventies: Understood.

Khathu: I did call my great aunt last night and shared the discovery with her i.e. the proof.

Seventies: I bet she was excited about that.

Khathu: her attitude was she already knew because daddy told her.

Seventies: Oh yea. I've had that experience before. lol

alt: isn't that often the case ... they knew, but never mentioned it LOL LOL lOL

Khathu: But I explained to her that this document confirms what her father told her which is a very rare find.

Seventies: Indeed.

Khathu: alt - it was common knowledge within the family that John Dorsey was a white man

alt: rare indeed, especially the 'bone & flesh' statement

Seventies: that in itself is an interesting statement.

Khathu: alt - i did not realize that he mentioned their race as well. seeing their names was enough for me.

alt: Do these folks 'fit' into the Sons of Texas lineage thing?

Khathu: I guess he wanted to make it very clear that these men of color was his heirs produce from his own seed Not that I am aware of

Seventies: Okay since we are on the subject of white parents, black children. What is the standard of proof for determining at that time that one parent was white and 'cared' for their offspring??

alt: that would sure enough be a knockout .. the Will.

Seventies: What type of evidence would you collect to make an informed conclusion.

Khathu: Relationship document in will, probate, deeds, court, etc.

Daviss: seventies I am looking at now at a 1848 bill of sale of 3 slave from Edward Smith to Ezra Fairchild of Queens NY

Khathu: I meant documented interact alt - share an example yesterday which provided indirect evidence

Seventies: Ok as per our convo a couple days ago, this is the issue I was trying to confirm with these Smiths of mine. okay is the transcription up yet?

alt: any legal document, newspaper aricle, personal correspondence, DNA for starters Seventies

Khathu: because there is no direct evidence you will have to depend on indirect evidence as well as DNA

Seventies: I do have the will and the execution of the will and the freeing of the children with their physical description.

Khathu: direct evidence is some document where the person actually acknowledge the paternity

Seventies: Three of the children are listed as Mulatto, including my ancestor Harriet. Thing is initially they were the only children to be freed.

Khathu: what other documentation

Seventies: The execution of the will.

Khathu: did they continue to interact with the slaveholding family

Seventies: Yes they did.

Khathu: how?

alt: and lacking a birth record, which still isn't conclusive, indirect evidence is about as close as you'll get in document form

Seventies: The nephew, Batty Smith and his wife's family the Gardners. The nephew was also listed in the will as the 'legitimate' heir. That also raised a red flag IMO

alt: I guess it would Seventies

Seventies: He had no white children

Khathu: so his nephew would be the next heir then

Seventies: Yes, Let me post the link to the will.

Khathu: if there were not siblings, parents or wife

Seventies: He had siblings, but they didn't seem as if he liked them very much.. lol left his nephews father $200. Left his enslaved 2K, equipment and land. There were a total of six people he manumitted. Khathu, keep talking... http://tinyurl.com/cgayz9y I'm done.

Khathu: let me read the will

Seventies: You had a GREAT GREAT find my friend!

Khathu: what other documentation do you have outside of the will

Seventies: Here is the execution of the will: Source: Dallas County Court Records Written: April 13, 1829 By Virtue of the provisions of the within executed act, I hereby emancipate from bondage and set free forever the following described and named negroes, Viz: Tom, a man about thirty-one or two years of age; Harriet, a mulatto woman about eighteen or nineteen years of age; Theodorick a mulatto boy fifteen or sixteen years old; William also a mulatto boy about thirteen or fourteen years of age; Malinda a girl of dark complexion about eight or nine years of age; Sarah a girl about six or seven years of age; Bob a negro man about fifty years of age; Charity a negro woman about forty years of age, the mother of Harriett, Theodorick, William, Malinda, and Sarah. Given under my hand and seal this 13th April 1829. Lewis Tyus, Executor of the Last Will Testament of Baxter Smith deceased

Daviss: did you type of the will seventies or is this the original copy

Seventies: No this is the transcribed copy. Hadn't gotten the original will. this was done by a descendant of Tom Smith.

Daviss: ok hello vkn!

Seventies: hi vkn

vkn: Hello

alt: hello vkn, g'day to ya.

vkn: alt is down under

Khathu: Seventies, this record alone would not be enough to prove indirectly that he was the father alt - could you re-post the link you shared yesterday

vkn: Kathu and Daviss sent you TX researchers a news article

Khathu: thanks vkn....

Daviss: thx vkn, got it

Seventies: I figured as much and my cousin has much more documents than I since I didn't research this line myself. I was trying to do an 'assist'

alt: Here you go Khathu http://tinyurl.com/bpw7dya

Seventies: thank you alt.

Khathu: this is a great example ofhow paternity determined using through indirect evidence

alt: yw Seventies

Seventies: Oh no, I need to take a 15 minute break from my computer. BRB.

Khathu: k

Daviss: khathu do you have a Celia in your Luckey line

Khathu: not that i am aware of

Daviss: born around 1820

Khathu: No, there is a Jerry Luckey b. 1815

Daviss: W H Luckie to Ann Luckie a Bill of sale for Celia f black $600.00 age 28

Khathu: which state and county

Daviss: Harrison County

Khathu: what year? My Luckeys did not arrive into Texas until the late 1860s

Daviss: 1849 ok 1860 to early then take care folks

Khathu: okay, i need to go grab lunch. ttyl

alt: the ship must be sinking ... folks are deserting us LOL LOL

Seventies: oh dear! well, they couldn't wait a few minutes for my return.. lol See you all tomorrow!