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Start: 21:03:57
End: 22:34:22
Chatters: alt, AYWalton, Ingrid_Doweary, Khathu, Selma, vicky, vkn

vicky: Happy Juneteenth to all who enter!!

Selma: Good evening vicky

vicky: Selma! how's it going?

Selma: Going pretty good..took my grandson to the movies today to see Toy Story was good..he just passed out on the floor

vicky: lol I hear it was very good. I think we are going tomorrow he had a full day with granny I see lol

Selma: The older grandson went to see the move with Jaden Smith..title just escaped me..he said it was great Karate Kid

vicky: Thats karate Kid

Selma: The brain is slow.. LOL

vicky: lol I also liked the Ice Age movies

Selma: Yes, the grandson fell asleep on the floor watching that tonite on TV

vicky: I hated the Transformers

Selma: I am waiting for the Harry Potter film I get to see all of the kiddie movies with the grand kids.. LOL

vicky: lol me too but you know Sel, I really enjoy most of them

Selma: It was so hot was nice and cool actually chilly in the movie theater I got to remember to take a sweater

vicky: thet got me watching Pheneas and Ferb now

Selma: I enjoy them too...

vicky: I saw on FB that Sadonya has a BD today

Selma: I will have to send her belated HB on Tuesday evening Evening alt

alt: Hello Selma & vicky

vicky: hello Alt! Happy 19th lol

alt: Looks like tiger's back.. he's -1

Selma: Oh I forgot he was playing...I have the grandkids

alt: same to you vicky

Selma: Is he leading?

alt: no, he's in 3rd came from 25th back

Selma: Happy 19th what?

alt: shot a 66

vicky: Juneteenth

Selma: OH jeez..better not let seventies know I missed that..LOL

vicky: lol lol lol

alt: I'm gonna tell LOL

Selma: LOL

vicky: good thing you can't scroll back lol lol

Selma: They use to celebrate Emancipation Day here in VA...I have seen that in some historical documents...not sure when the stopped. It was not in June

alt: 22 sep is EP day

Selma: Nope it wasn't September either...I will have to go dig it out

vicky: April

AYWalton: Good evening all.

Selma: Evening AY and VKN

vicky: hello AYWalton and vkn

Selma: Are you home yet AY?

AYWalton: Howdy alt, Ms. Selma, Ms. Vicky!! Greetings, VKN!!!!!!!!!!!!

vkn: hey hey hey and welcome home ayw

AYWalton: thanks so much, vkn!!! good to be home!

Selma: So Samford was GREAT

alt: they still have an EP Day celebration in Gallapolis, OH...

AYWalton: alt, Debbie Abbott is a riot!! Samford was very good!

vkn: Samford is intense

AYWalton: I really enjoyed it!

Selma: Didn't you go once vkn

AYWalton: It is, indeed.

alt: Welcome back AYWalton ... Yep, told you thatyou would enjoy Debbie

vkn: Yes selma

AYWalton: you were correct! she is a good soul. we had one good workshop after another. it was really a good experience. and I was most surprised to see so many folks that I knew who were on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th trip to Samford.

alt: as I tell my wife AYWalton .... I ain't always right, but I'm never wrong LOL

AYWalton: lol

vkn: Selma there was no afriam track when I went

AYWalton: I can see why some come back---they want to get in on different parts. I might take the southern track one of these days. Plus I will go back in 2012.

vkn: fill us in ayw

AYWalton: I was blogging from it every day, and tweeting from it as well.

vkn: Well with some of the high highlights

AYWalton: I covered it every day.

vicky: We sure enjoyed the tweets and the blog

Selma: How did your brick wall exercise turn out

alt: did I understand you to say there were over 50 AA's in attendance?

AYWalton: That was interesting-------we had a problem where a researcher--(I forgot her last name) wanted to find a lost ancestor, whom she never could find before 1900. We found him using the Kansas State Census of 1885 and 1865. Then we were able to locate him in the 1880 Federal census, and his wife in the 1880 census. she was using the wrong document to estimate his age, and we were able to prove that we had the right guy.

Selma: What had she been looking at

AYWalton: She had a marriage record of one of her ancestor's sons. On that certificate-----in 1918----it said that his father (the father of the groom and the missing ancestor) was 74 years old---- which put his birth year to be in the 1840s. BUT--------in the one census year in which she had found him-----it stated that he was born about 1859. We found him in the 1865 Kansas state census, and he was a 6 year old child. we were certain that he was the right child----but she was clinging to the older age----for no reason. I noted that he never signed that marriage record---nor did he put his X on it. he might not have even been around when it was completed----furthermore it was a document describing a marriage for a son. so reliance on that document as proof of age---was the LEAST reliable record that she could have used. we also found the woman he married living with her family while a child. another member of the team found the same ancestor in a city directory from Parsons Kansas. in the 1865 state census, the head of the household was a Robert Williams---(oh the ancestor we were searching was Elijah Williams) Robert was 60 with a young woman 35 years old and the young boy Elijah at the age of 6. She never knew any of his ancestors, so we don't know if Robert was a father, or grandfather. BUT----he was 60 and was possibly of age to be able to follow further. We suggested that she search for Robert in 1860 in Kansas, to see if he was a free man of color. We also suggested that she research him to see if there were any military records that might reveal more about Robert.

alt: wow.. 60 in 1865 ,,, born around 1805, huh?

AYWalton: AND we suggested that she follow up and research the history of the county to see when blacks entered that part of Kansas. but we did find her ancestor.

Selma: Did she concede that this was him....or is she still holding out

AYWalton: She had given a long description with data that did not help us before she finally got to her problem---which was to find him prior to 1900---which we did. and she did agree that we found him in 1880 and 1885---but still was trying to hold out about him being much older. I am writing up the final findings in a Power Point for her. and we believe that we have possibly found two ancestors beyond Elijah. I think though that she had to lighten up---because of one of the presentations.

Selma: Did it say what state Robert was from before Kansas?

AYWalton: He was born in Arkansas.

alt: her brick wall sound like an inability to go at the problem with an open mind..... ie the age thing.

AYWalton: She thought it was Van Buren Arkansas. I asked which Van Buren---because there are two.

Selma: Did you recommend that she look at any FB records for Arkansas

AYWalton: There is Van Buren the town (where a friend Tonia lives) and there is Van Buren county. We did not, only because they were in Kansas and Kansas was a non-slave state with no FB offices. And they were there in 1865.

Selma: Oh OK

AYWalton: I also suggested that Robert might have been in Arkansas before 1860. There was the 1859 Expulsion Law. All free Blacks had to leave the state by Jan 1 1860 or risk be sold. most left the state---some went into Missouri and others into Kansas.

Selma: Ahh.

AYWalton: Robert might have been part of the expulsion population. that was also a suggestion. Of course---she had to accept that Robert was in her line. she reluctantly began to accept that possibility---- but because of another reason. one of the presentations was done by Ari Wilkins. She studied a slave from the WPA. Fountain Hughes was one of the few slaves interviewed on tape. so she decided to follow his life and document it. He was said to have been 101 at the time of the interview, and he died at the age of 104. She followed his life, documenting the places where he lived, and she located the slave owner and also found papers reflecting that the slave owner did own him. there were two things that caught her attention. 1 was that----she asked if he was ever sold. He said no---he was too little to sell----and that he was of no value because he was so young and small when the war took place. noting that he himself said he was too small during the war----she kept trying to find something to prove his age. she located a tax record of the slave owner that documented his age. he was born about 1860 and so he would have been just a toddler when the war was going on. AND the interview was made in the 1940s. which made him in his 90s. In spite of all of the talk of him being over 100 years----here were documents created by those who would have known his age---and who KNEW when he was born. and he was in his 90s---a great old age to be, no question---BUT he was not 104 at the time of his death. We talked about the age issue. and how sometimes stories can get embellished when ages of elders are mentioned. so she did, after our lengthy discussion in another session, accept the possibility that her ancestor was not quite as old as she had thought. she had been looking for him in Civil War records hoping to find a USCT. I also made a final suggestion for her. on that 1865 state census---there were two close neighbors who were still in the Army. They were in the 1st Kansas Colored. This means that they were in the 79th USCT. well-----I suggested that she read the pension files of both of these two men. It was common for people in the community to give depositions, and to speak on behalf of the applicant for a pension. Especially if the witness was a man of stature in the community. I have no idea if Robert was a man of importance----but since they lived as close neighbors---reading their pension was critical---for neighbors also tell the stories of the community. that was a recurring theme in many of the sessions. Can't find your people? Then study the neighbors. So I will send a final analysis to her this coming week.

Selma: I really don't understand why people don't get that

AYWalton: well----many people only research with blinders----they are looking for grandpa---and ONLY grandpa.

vicky: I get it lol

AYWalton: the neighbors could hold the secret to more about grandpa.

alt: out of curiousity...... was there ever any discussion in the AA track on FPOC?

AYWalton: oh goodness yes! although the theme was slavery and reconstruction---there was lots of discussion about FPOCs. continually....

alt: okay Hello Infrid

AYWalton: Debbie Abbotts session on land records was about a free family of color.

vicky: hello Ingrid

AYWalton: it was great!

Selma: Evening Ingrid

AYWalton: All the way to how they got manumitted in the 1830s.

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Alt, AY, Selma, Vicky and vkn What were some of the documents presented, AY?

AYWalton: Oh gosh TONS of things Ingrid. Tax records, land records, state census records, maps, and on and on.

Ingrid_Doweary: That's great.

AYWalton: Shamel Jordon gave a great presentation about a town in NJ---the only all Black incorporated town. she followed the town's history from the 1840s to the present.

alt: were there many non-AA's attending the AA track?

AYWalton: she studied the communities that developed around the two old churches---one an AME church. Some of the early inhabitants were FPCs, who were also Allenites, who established the first church.

Ingrid_Doweary: That is interesting, the community history.

AYWalton: and she also showed us some of her trick using Google Earth. how she plots a cemetery marking the headstones with her GPS and adding them to Google earth. it was amazing.

Ingrid_Doweary: Excellent. Allenites?

AYWalton: followers of Richard Allen, AME founder.

Ingrid_Doweary: Okay, that's what I thought.

AYWalton: a good discussion came up right there about some naming patterns in communities---when you see lots of John Wesley's, one might be around a Methodist community. Richard Allen Johnsons, and/or Richard Allen Smith, or Jones suggests a strong AME presence. trying to remember some of the other denominational names, but can't right now.

Ingrid_Doweary: Makes sense, John Wesley, United Methodist church founder?

AYWalton: Too tired. yes, Ingrid. we had great discussions. so all in all it was good.

vkn: WONDERFUL report and sharing ayw

AYWalton: Glad to. My head is still spinning, for sure.

alt: it is always great to be around a group of 'serious' genealogists...

Ingrid_Doweary: Sounds good. Thanks AY

AYWalton: But I hope to gather some of my notes and put some of the new ideas to use.

Ingrid_Doweary: Here,here, Alt.

AYWalton: And so many folks had been there 3 and 4 times! Selma I saw the twins---Nettie and Lettie were there. (for the 3rd time). But Betty did not make it.

Ingrid_Doweary: Were those the ladies from New York, AY?

AYWalton: Chicago. Dallas had a good crowd of folks.

alt: now.... did you find a 'good' Rib Joint? LOL

AYWalton: as did Chicago, Cleveland, & Indianapolis.

Ingrid_Doweary: Oh okay. got them confused with others.

AYWalton: Now that I did not do. didn't have time to.

alt: for shame

AYWalton: next time I will for sure.

Selma: How was Pinnicks presentation

AYWalton: which one?

Ingrid_Doweary: Are you enjoying yourself, Vicky?

AYWalton: he gave at least 3 plus he moderated a round table.

Selma: Oh wow......

AYWalton: I sat on the Round Table and gave a great commercial for AfriGeneas.

vkn: wow wow

alt: The round table, how did that turn out?

Ingrid_Doweary: He was busy.

AYWalton: that was pretty good. check the blog, I have photos. Several on the panel----Sharon Baptiste Gillins (she is great---from Galveston TX) She was also a presenter. Debbie Abbott, let me think who else.

alt: I saw you, Debbie, Shamele and the others I couldn't make out.

AYWalton: let me look at the blog....

alt: and of course Tim

AYWalton: oh----how could I forget---our friend Michael Hait.

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Khathu

alt: He was on the 'panel'?

Khathu: Happy Juneteenth

alt: Hi Khathu

AYWalton: Yes, I was a bit surprised at that. howdy khathu!

Selma: Oh the expert

vicky: hi there Khathu!

AYWalton: did you make it to Juneteenth with PG AAHGS, khathu?

Khathu: I decided not to attend.

alt: well, the guy does know how to fill out a resume LOL

Selma: Evening Khathu

AYWalton: :)

Selma: Are you thinking of going back next year? or waiting till 2012

Khathu: did he make any significant contribution while on the panel?

AYWalton: I think I would like to go next year to take the Southern course---but not sure. Or the land records course. He did mention that Luckie Daniels has a nice blog. I covered every day of the event on the blog, so if you have a chance take a look.

Khathu: well folks i am on my way to being one of the first individuals to be a part of the Sons of the Republic of Texas through an enslaved ancestor

AYWalton: you go khathu!!! have you gotten the word?????

alt: wonderful!!!!!!!!!

Ingrid_Doweary: How is that, Khathu?

vicky: awesome!!!

AYWalton: did you get an acceptance letter?

Khathu: I needed to get three signatures and so far I have obtained two

Selma: Congrats to you Khahtu

alt: signatures?

AYWalton: What kind of signatures?

Khathu: they require that you obtain three signatures from members

AYWalton: Wow----where will you find the third one?

alt: your application is reviewed and then you need signatures?

Selma: and your documentation is checked..then you still need 3 signatures?

Khathu: to verify my good standing as a citizens and to review my application before it is submitted to headquarters

AYWalton: Wow----where will you find the third one?

Khathu: i should have obtained the third one today at the Dallas chapter meeting Mic Bennett is my "sponsor". He conducted a presentation on FPOC in the Republic of Texas today

AYWalton: where was this presentation?

Khathu: In Dallas, Texas

vkn: Congrats Khathu

alt: that's an interesting process Khathu .... usually your documentation when reviewed and approved is enough for most Lineage Societies that I know of.

AYWalton: that's great, khathu.

vicky: was it at the Dallas library Khathu

Ingrid_Doweary: That's great news, Khathu.

Khathu: alt - i guess you need to be sponsored by three members as part of the application

AYWalton: Oh here is the post about the Panel discussion:

alt: yes, you are to be commended for even 'making the move' Khathu

AYWalton: I must say a week long institute is something to do. it was intense but very good.

Khathu: usually it is three members from the chapter you are interested in joining my documentation was very solid even for GSP

vkn: So glad you went Angela

Selma: Will they have an induction ceremony Khathu?

Khathu: AYWalton - thanks for the daily blog postings

alt: oh I know it was from our discussions Khathu

Khathu: I am not sure Selma

AYWalton: it was my pleasure (it was also hard work to do that every day!!)

Khathu: I think I may be the first person to join through an enslaved ancestor i can imagine.... Selma they should have a ceremony for me

AYWalton: Khathu let us know when it is official!

alt: no doubt.. Are there any FPOC 'Sons of Texas"?

AYWalton: they should, indeed!

Khathu: Yes there are alt

Ingrid_Doweary: Sounds like a valuable breakthrough, Khathu.

Selma: I was gonna say that Khathu...yes they should and I think you should give a presentation

alt: okay

Khathu: i would fly down to Texas for the ceremony.....

Ingrid_Doweary: Look forward to hearing more progress on that, Khathu.

Selma: Gotta get them cowboy boots... LOL

Khathu: I will keep everyone posted.....

AYWalton: and a cowboy hat and those ties that look like ropes.

Khathu: Selma - I am already looking at a pair and a ten gallon hat with the bola tie

Selma: See I told you to get a hat..a couple of months ago and you said no.. LOL

AYWalton: but tip the hat to the side the way the brothers do in Dallas!

Khathu: lol

alt: my FFO Certificate

AYWalton: I have considered applying to the First Families of the Twin Territories. Just have never sent it in.

Khathu: i will definitely post my certificate on my blog and tribalpages site

AYWalton: as you should, indeed! that is great!

Khathu: It took me over a year to finally submit my application and i had all of the documentation

AYWalton: Wow Art, I am checking out your lineage certificates!

Ingrid_Doweary: Hat's off to you, Khathu!

AYWalton: You and Skip Gates are more white than black, huh?

alt: go for it Khathu!!!!!

AYWalton: :)

Ingrid_Doweary: You go, Alt!

alt: those are all Black folks AYWalton

AYWalton: no question, alt.

Khathu: Has anyone looked at the blog entitled Finding Josephine?

alt: Please, make sure you go to the induction ceremony Khathu!!!! show them it can be done and your folks were there too!!!!

AYWalton: Yes, I have seen it, Khathu.

Khathu: They are trying to get more AfriAms to join

AYWalton: I think it is Dionne Ford's blog. indeed you should go, khathu.

Khathu: the owner Dionne gave a shout out to AfriGeneas

Ingrid_Doweary: That reminds, the USCT descendants receive certificates of honor for their ancestor from the Afri-Am Civil War Freedom Memorial Foundation in person.


Ingrid_Doweary: Yea, Dionne Ford! :}

alt: Khathu, it ain't a matter of 'joining" it is about doing the work in getting the documentation that proves you 'belong"

AYWalton: Ingrid are they the same certificates that we got on the dedication day?

Khathu: she is very lucky....most of her finding has been due to other people locating documents for her

alt: My civil war certificate

vkn: go head alt

Selma: I think joining these groups allows you to say the NAMES of all these folks who were ignored and not seen as part of the history of these places

Ingrid_Doweary: You go ahead, Alt! :} :}


AYWalton: well folks I had better turn in. Tired from a day of travel, and a week of work.

Selma: Art you must need a whole wall in your house..LOL

AYWalton: Have a great evening everyone!

alt: okay.. I'm thru this is for Ohio between 1821-1860

Selma: I gotta run too folks..see you all tomorrow.

vicky: proud of all of y'all

vkn: me too

Khathu: thanks vicky

Ingrid_Doweary: Me also,y'all! :}

alt: me too.. I'm especially happy for Khathu I know the work it took.. it ain't easy LOL

vicky: I think I will do some more scouring the internet. Have a great nite..and alt if I don't see ya tomorrow Happy Fathers Day

Khathu: I am proud that my research can stand on its own merit

alt: ty vicky

Ingrid_Doweary: That's the Spirit, Khathu. :}

alt: I'm outa here too laters y'all

vkn: okies

Ingrid_Doweary: Happy fathers day to you

alt: there you go Khathu !!!!!!!

Khathu: Good night every one.

Ingrid_Doweary: Good nite to you, Vkn

vkn: talk atcha 2morry ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Okies

18 Dec 2002 :: 1 Feb 2009
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