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2011-12-09 AfriAm Records•AfriAm in Records

*LunchBunch

Start: 12:05:24
End: 13:31:59
Chatters: alt, AYWalton, Daviss, Selma, Seventies Soulchild, vicjorob, vkn

Daviss: Hi alt!

alt: Hi Daviss. welcome & how ya doing today? better I pray.

Daviss: lol yes and how are you?

alt: okay, wish I could say the same for my printer.... it ain't printing the colors, so I gotta do some 'doctoring" LOL

Daviss: do you have to get ink?

alt: Probably Were you able to listen to Khathu last night?

Daviss: sheesh, hope its not the one where you have to have more than one color

alt: it is, but it's an Epson and their individual cartridges are not that expensive.

Daviss: Yes I did listen even though I had my times mixed up at first. I thought I saw 7 pm which meant for me 5 pm lol so I was resigned to the fact that I missed it later on I got a call and was told that it would be airing in a few minutes lol

alt: I thought he did a great job... if nothing else he explained, very well, that slave era research ain't easy and that you need to know some family, local, state & american history before you even start.

Daviss: so I got there right on time lol lol amen to that alt

Seventies Soulchild: Hello alt, hello Daviss

Daviss: hi seventies

alt: the way he explains it one can do themselves a big favor and 'hone' their research skills by doing 'contemporary' genealogy before tackling slave era genealogy.... I thought that was a 'highlight' of his presentation.

Seventies Soulchild: Hi alt. So let me tell you last night I went to talk to Mr. Matthews.

alt: Hello Seventies Soulchild, Happy pre-weekend to ya. LOL

Seventies Soulchild: And I got some good information.

alt: okay. I'm listening

Seventies Soulchild: He didn't know your Haynes or Ed Long...

alt: Hayden Oops, sorry

Seventies Soulchild: Ok so Mr. Matthews came to NY in 1939

Daviss: brb

Seventies Soulchild: He said that the first black officer at West Point during that time was a black nurse who was very fair skinned. However once they discovered that she was black, they gave her orders from West Point.... hmmmmm Good afternoon Selma

alt: hello Selma

Selma: Good Friday Mornin/Afternoon folks

Seventies Soulchild: He has a few books he's going to let me read up on. I'll see if Hayden is in the books.

AYWalton: Ahhh....there they are---the Gang of Four. lol Good afternoon, all.

Seventies Soulchild: Hey AYWalton

AYWalton: howdy alt, Daviss, Ms. Selma, SoulChile!

alt: hello AYWalton, how goes it?

AYWalton: going fine, just uploaded podcast so all is well.

Selma: Wow...the Gang of Four..where is Mao?

AYWalton: was going to go to the Archives today, but got a late start and changed my mind about it.

Seventies Soulchild: lol

AYWalton: lol

Seventies Soulchild: Yes you have to open up the place to get anything done there.. lo

alt: AYWalton, is Mel Collier among your 23andme RF 'cousin' matches?

Seventies Soulchild: hi vicjorob

AYWalton: quite true SoulChile and since I was not there to open it up, I would not get the full benefit of being there. no he isn't, alt.

Selma: Do you all remember when Nixon went to China...All the people were dressed in Gray Mao jackets..and on bikes...Pat Nixon got off the plane in a Red coat

AYWalton: has he taken the 23andMe test?

alt: hello vicjorob

AYWalton: lol I did not realize that, Selma about the red coat.

vicjorob: Hi all!

AYWalton: howdy vicjorob!

Seventies Soulchild: The Nixons.... :?

alt: yes, Mel has and he is on the DNA tested AA FaceBook page AYWalton

Selma: At least that is what Iremember.. I am old you know.. LOL

AYWalton: Oh I have to check it out!!

Selma: President Nixon seventies..

AYWalton: I just saw it alt! I have to read and see what he says.

Seventies Soulchild: Made the wrong emoticon... meant this :|

AYWalton: He just got his results so the relative finder might not yet be updated.

alt: okay AYWalton

AYWalton: can't wait to see what shows up there!

Daviss: ok back...hello to all I have not seen

Seventies Soulchild: scroll up Daviss...

alt: and I think Charles Barker has done 23andme too AYWalton

Selma: Khathu said nicely what I always say "slave research" is everything you ever wanted to know, or didn't want to know about the slave owning family and then some

AYWalton: oh that's good! yes he made some interesting points last night. If you did not catch it there is always the archived broadcast!

Seventies Soulchild: hello vkn

vkn: hey hey hey

AYWalton: It was too bad the caller was shortened as they ran out of time.

Selma: Afternoon vkn

vkn: Selma

AYWalton: Greetings, vkn!!!!!!!!!!!!

alt: yes Selma, I was telling Daviss I thought the 'impact' of his show was that you need to some 'contemporary' research and learn some family. local, state & american history before you even think about doing slave era research.

Daviss: interesting Seventies, what was the nurse's name

vkn: AYW !!!!!!!!!!!

AYWalton: I liked that he mentioned starting with the contemporary family.

vkn: DAVISS

AYWalton: mentione = mentioned

alt: Hello vkn, how be's ya?

Daviss: hello AYWalton, Selma, vjorob and vkn!

vkn: Seventies

AYWalton: wassup, Ms. Daviss????

vkn: vicjorob

Seventies Soulchild: He didn't tell me Daviss. Waiting to get the info. But from what I am to understand that there was a lot of recruiting of very fair skinned black folk to come to school.

Daviss: not anything that I know AY lol

alt: and I liked his term FAN research.... family, acquaintance & neighbor

Seventies Soulchild: I like that too alt

AYWalton: I liked that as well, alt.

Selma: I have heard that before..

AYWalton: I was not sure about using the slave schedule the same way.

vkn: Yes I thought FAN was good but he best get the copyright quick quick quick

alt: I called it 'cluster' or community and hadn't used it in that sense Selma

AYWalton: Although I use it to compile my "list of suspects" when searching for slave holders.

Seventies Soulchild: lol agree vkn

AYWalton: yes, we know there are lurkers and the next thing you know someone will be out there publishing something on using FANs for African American Research.

vkn: I too use suspects ayw

Daviss: Selma said she has heard the term before so it may already be copywrited

AYWalton: it's a useful term for sure!

vkn: but I learned to use that term in passing

Selma: Think I heard at a VGS seminar a number of years ago

AYWalton: it's a useful term. Alt, will you be going to the NGS conference? it will be in Cincinnati in 2012.

alt: his program centered on slave era research surrounding the CW & Reconstruction...showing me that there is even separate areas of slave research when you get into earlier manumissions and FPOC's.

Selma: Its catchy...and something easy to remember...

AYWalton: I plan on suggesting that Bernice consider continuing the topic.

Selma: She said there would be a part II

AYWalton: ahh----perhaps an AfriGeneas publication. it could be a series.

alt: Yes AYWalton, with NGS being in Cincinnati I sure plan on being there.

AYWalton: There are so many strategies. Alt have you looked at the schedule?

Seventies Soulchild: Well I'm still waiting for Hari Jones to come back for his part 2

Selma: How close in time is it to Samford AY

Seventies Soulchild: Which reminds me... brb

AYWalton: I took a quick look and saw several workshops for Afr. Am research, but the speakers were not Afr. Am at all. I may have overlooked some and will examine again later. NGS is May and Samford is mid-June.

alt: NGS ??? yes, not too overwhelmed with the AA inclusion in the programming, but......

AYWalton: but I hope that is not becoming a trend---take a look when you can, alt. perhaps AfriGeneas can submit and sponsor presenters or something.

Daviss: well......

AYWalton: i know that NGS has been a hard nut to crack for years.

alt: I saw Shelley and maybe 1-2 others.

vkn: Certainly it is a pattern ayw

AYWalton: I have submitted papers off and on. Others have as well. Some do get accepted, though. that is part of the old flavor of NGS--it was a land for blue blooded. and in some cases only blue bloods present about non-blue bloods.

Daviss: smh aywalton and a few people come to mind

alt: I'll be there mainly to support my genealogy 'friends' in OGS as they are doing a lot of the volunteer work for NGS.

vkn: Maybe there needs to be a howto session on formatting a proposal AYW

Daviss: I wonder how many of us'ns submit

AYWalton: yes, and they are speaking, Daviss. perhaps there is an accepted format for such hallowed halls such as NGS. I do recall that back in the 1990s several folks had submitted for NGS in Richmond--non were accepted except one--who was already in the good graces of the power brokers at NGS.

alt: there is... is it the "Chicago' (?) formt for CFP????

AYWalton: I would not know how to crack the NGS door open, but perhaps others do. I don't know, alt.

Daviss: 'Don't want to get to many, it might be to much color cordination going on

AYWalton: Well NONE is pretty safe, I guess.

alt: and then the NGS has such an early deadline for their CFP usually a year in advance... they are already accepting for 2013 ... as I understand it.

AYWalton: but there might be some speaking on generic topics. that makes sense to be early, no problem with that.

Selma: I don't go to NGS looking for them to do sessions on black folks..but I do go there for expert information on Wills and deeds and court order books etc...

AYWalton: there are several folks out there who do submit.

vkn: I guess being an avid reader of the journals may put one in the frame of presentation

AYWalton: that is a good strategy Selma.

alt: our folks don't ususally 'be early' AYWalton LOL

Selma: I have been to 3...I love em

vkn: Good point Selma

AYWalton: Not for organizations for sure, alt. speaking of which------------------------ I got an INVOICE from ASALH which I did not attend!!!!

vkn: wow

AYWalton: I was initially going to be a speaker, and pulled out, notified the woman who invited me, and last week they sent me a BILL for the conference and for membership!!!!!!! talking about some insane nonsense!!!!!!

Selma: Tut, tut,tut.. LOL

AYWalton: these folks never acknowledged my pulling out----plus I NEVER registered!!

vkn: Well they ASALH are busy getting the word out so kudos for their PR peeps

AYWalton: now if THAT is not some sorry mess!!!!

Daviss: oops AYWalton, and how immediate was your response

alt: exactly Selma... as Khathu pointed out last night... the majority of the records used for researching enslaved ancestors once you back back to slavery will NOT be found in AA records.

Selma: NGS Journal had an article on Using Pension records written by Ruth Randall..

AYWalton: I responded to an email about 2 weeks ago that I never attended, nor registered!

Selma: or is it Rendall..

Daviss: vkn sent I sent you a msg on Talking

Selma: In slavery you are NOT generating the record

vkn: and there were two articles done by Del Jupiter

AYWalton: well if anyone has ties to ASALH folks tell them that their billing is unconscienable!

vkn: yassum daviss

AYWalton: (did I spell that right?)

Selma: Probably not..but we understand.. lOL

AYWalton: I recall the article years ago that Del did.

vkn: and then she recd an award for excellence the next year

AYWalton: I am a lapsed NGS member so don't get the journal these days. they have good articles, though.

Selma: The one Ruth did about 2 years ago was excellent researching familyAYWalton whose roots were in VA..after the Civil War they went to Philly and hid the fact they were from VA

vkn: who is the current editor of the journal Selma

Selma: and enslaved I don't know let me see if I have it around

vkn: okies

AYWalton: sounds interesting. although the journal is dry in appearance, the content is good.

Selma: She stated that DuBose had said "a large percentage of the folks in Philly had roots in the South and enslaved"...but denied when they got there

vkn: Agreed AYW on the content

AYWalton: so what was the advantage of the denial of southern roots, when accent, and culture would have had "southern" written all over it? it does make me think of Dorothy Spruill Redford whose Aunt and Uncle pretended they were Jamaican.

Selma: Yes..

vicjorob: AYWalton -- I love the NGS Journal. Great articles.

Selma: Editors are: Melinde Lutz Byrne and Thomas W. Jones Review Editor is Christopher A.Nordmann I love the VHS Journal too...2 great articles this edition.. I know that Nordmann name from somewhere

vicjorob: vkn - When would be a good time to chat about uploading data etc?

vkn: Selma I think the editor might be the guy doing the follow up work on the Mills Alabama FPOCs

Selma: You mean Nordmann?

vkn: Yes Nordmann he is on our mailing list Selma

AYWalton: their focus on people of color over the years has been interesting. Is there a tie that they have to POCs or FPOCs?

alt: that's my thing Selma Journals from State Genealogy Societies.... my mott for genealogy is a take-off of the the political thing... "it's all local"

vkn: You tell me when vicjorob I am avilable thr rest of this day

AYWalton: you are right, alt---it is truly a local venture!!

vicjorob: How about I call you after this chat? My cell is 7033147972

AYWalton: and we have to be ready to get local with the research.

Selma: July issue has article on Using Freedmen's Bureau Registers to Trace Enslaved Families..by Morna Lahnice Hollister

AYWalton: sounds like a good one, Selma!

Selma: Freedmen's Bank Records..not Bureau

AYWalton: ahhh ok. I do have to renew.

vkn: Gotcha vicjorob that is excellent 4043447177

Selma: But to be honest...I don't subscribe expecting to or looking for articles specifically focused on black folks

vicjorob: Selma - don't forget the Freedman's Bureau Records as well. Remember, they were required to set up a triad council of sorts in each community to review concerns brought to it by Freedman. My 2g grandmother's BIL Dr Daniel Norton served on the one for Yorktown.

Selma: You are related to Daniel Norton... wow..

vicjorob: Selma -- agreed. So little can be learned if we keep a narrow focus.

Selma: Have you looked at the info in RG 105

vicjorob: Yes, his son Dr. Nelson Frederick Norton was grandson to Nelson T Gant from Zanesville.

AYWalton: have to run, folks. have a good day.

vkn: that is why we must do history AND genealogy

Selma: I have transcribed a number of records in RG 105..they mention him and what was going in Yorktown

vicjorob: I am working on an article which chronicles some interesting similarities in court cases that Nelson T and Nelson F faced. Both were brought to trial 3 times for their individual cases.

vkn: and I guess one must also study culture

vicjorob: Yes, Dr Dan was a fascinating man. Too bad that his life was cut short by the flu outbreak of 1918. He and his wife both died within weeks of each other.

Selma: Black folk who research have no other choice that to expand their focus..cause their folks are NOT generating the records

vicjorob: Or perhaps were prevented from generating the records

Selma: Ok alt..sorry not all black folks..just the 90%

vicjorob: However, today we have no excuses.

vkn: But yall know we still be looking for the BLACK RECORDS

Selma: LOL

Daviss: . well after getting my DNA results lol lol lol

alt: an obsrvation I have with most AA's researching,, is their zeroing in on 'counties" where as in my research it has been more on an area of several surrounding counties as most FPOC were in counties where there was a small % of other AA's and they had to venture outside of their home turf to 'socialize & intermingle' with other AA's

vkn: uh oh now what daviss

Daviss: just joking vkn lol

vkn: lol

Selma: That makes sense alt..

Daviss: newspaper articles tell that story alt

vkn: and much of that gets into the local newspapers of yesteryears alt

alt: right Selma. so I look at 'sections' in Ohio.

vicjorob: You know what would be cool to collect, are the names of local newspapers that had sections about "Our Colored Citizens" where they showcased the comings and goings of POC/FPOC.

vkn: Will send Tim a copy of this chat vicjorob

Daviss: I am still looking for that newspaper called the Vine in Ricmond Selma

alt: and for history... I look at Ross Co., Ohio in 1850.... My Allen, Walden ancestors were neighbors of Eston Hemmings, John Langston, etc.

Daviss: I was hoping that Ancestry would put it up

Selma: Oh jeez DAviss...I forgot about that..will put on my things todo in 2012

Daviss: lol lol Selma thanks

vkn: Also good to look at the Black Abolitionists papers

alt: vicjorob .. ahve you read the Zanesville Times REcorder from the early 1900's?

Selma: Was there a colored newspaper in Ohio in the 1850's alt? or columns in the local white newspapers

alt: they have a 'colored citizens' section.

vkn: Many of the papers had a limited lifespan

Daviss: The Editor was CC Sommerville Selma

Selma: Thank you Daviss.. LOL

Daviss: welcome lol

alt: Selma .. the Pallidium of Liberty in Ohio from 1843 was an early AA owned, operated, published paper from Columbus, Ohio

Selma: Are there extant issues..are they on line or available in an archives

vkn: Sommerville was in Clint Hayes research

alt: The Anti-Slavery ????? fro New Lisbon, Ohio was AA sponsored in the 1850's

Daviss: oh really vkn was he a VA researcher

alt: Go to the Ohio Historical Society page and search fro AA newspapers Selma

vkn: SC MS AL daviss

Daviss: oh ok

Selma: Ok..I was really just asking for general knowledge.. LOL

vkn: General Knowledge is one bad dude lol

alt: I know y'all get tired of me 'harping' on Ohio, but in the early 1800's it was the 'new frontier' not only for whites but blacks as the old northwest territory opened up for people of clor.

vicjorob: alt - yessirree! Have found a wealth of information in all the Zanesville papers. Luckily, they were among the first digitized by Ancestry.

vkn: harping is melodious alt

vicjorob: Selma - there was a paper in Columbus that had a good section on AAs.

alt: Gertrude Adams SAwyer, wife of Tuskegee Airmen and 'Ace" Harold Sawyer was a reporter for the Zanesville Times Recorder in the 1930's.... she is still living and quite active at age 97.

vicjorob: alt :o

vkn: Also in Jacksonville Alabama LOTS of news on people of color

vicjorob: alt - was she born in Zanesville? If so, then I bet she was delivered by Dr. Gee, who had married Nelson Gant's youngest daughter.

Selma: Ok..sorry on the phone

Daviss: well gotta run folks. cya later

alt: she was born near Marietta, Ohio, but the family had roots in Zanesville from the 1850's vicjorob

Selma: A Portsmouth VA paper in early 1900's had a column called "Colored Notes"

Seventies Soulchild: lol I'm back

Selma: Jeez..you been gone the whole chat..

vkn: wb

alt: right Selma & vkn.. we miss a lot when we look at only AA newspapers and not the "white' newspapers in our home areas.

vicjorob: alt- if her maiden name was Adams, they may have been the descendants of the Adams folks who were freed in 1845 by John Nixon (same as Nelson Gant).

Seventies Soulchild: lol Selma!

vkn: agreed alt

Selma: Remember I will be quizzing you next week..you have the weekend to study.. LOL

vkn: lol uh oh

Seventies Soulchild: On it! lol

alt: the death notices for a 3rd grandmother and her mother, my 4th great=grandmother are reported in 'white' newspapers... in 1861 & 1864 course they were 'good colored folks' LOL LOL LOL

Selma: LOL On that not ..think I will go take a nap.. note

alt: nap well Selma

vkn: muffin

vicjorob: Yep. Those "good colored folks" were also remembered in many a county history volume. Some places even called it "Our Favorite Nigras"

Selma: Yes, they were... Lordy, lordy

Seventies Soulchild: :}

vkn: and always the bad colored as well

alt: you got it vicjorob

Selma: Makes you want to holla

Seventies Soulchild: No not holla, go out an whip some.... XD

Selma: I have done alot of cussing in libraries and archives

Seventies Soulchild: :?

vicjorob: lol

vkn: Someone named muffin logged in but I cannot find

Selma: not muffin...ruffin

vkn: ahhhhh ok

vicjorob: But what really causes my bile to rise is when "official indexes" have systematically excluded the records of POC. Look at DAR transcriptions through the mid 1990s!

Selma: Yes...I have seen that

Seventies Soulchild: vicjorob. They don't think that we were worthy to be in their books or documented. Unless they think that they can make money.. lol

Selma: Now I really have to go take a nap..bye folks

Seventies Soulchild: bye Selma

alt: in 1905 the Champaign county Historical society did a featur on newspapers from 1805 in that county....100 pages.... one mention of an AA AME church... in 2005 they did another feature on newspapers from 1905-2005 and the community.... you know who was 'screaming and hollering' for meor inclusion of AA's and not a repeat of the 1905 fiasco.

vicjorob: But I have found a way to use it to my advantage. Compare these transcriptions to early indexes. What is missing will typically contain records of interest to AAs

Seventies Soulchild: Well why didn't THEY go out and do the history? They were just as capabable of doing it as anyone else.

alt: if that was for me Seventies Soulchild, they did, but it excluded the AA contribution to that community since 1810....

vkn: Good nite to all. I will listen to hear vicjorob 4043447177

Seventies Soulchild: I'm speaking of the people who were offended that the Historical society excluded them. What did they expect?

vicjorob: Gotta run. chat again soon.

alt: WE have to show them the way and MAKE them recognize OUR history Seventies Soulchild off my soapbox and outa here LOL LOL LOL

Seventies Soulchild: lol bye alt Have a good day

alt: you too


18 Dec 2002 :: 1 Feb 2009
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