2011-12-09 AfriAm Records•AfriAm in Records
Daviss: Hi alt!
alt: Hi Daviss. welcome & how ya doing today? better I pray.
Daviss: lol yes and how are you?
alt: okay, wish I could say the same for my printer.... it ain't printing the colors, so I gotta do some 'doctoring" LOL
Daviss: do you have to get ink?
alt: Probably Were you able to listen to Khathu last night?
Daviss: sheesh, hope its not the one where you have to have more than one color
alt: it is, but it's an Epson and their individual cartridges are not that expensive.
Daviss: Yes I did listen even though I had my times mixed up at first. I thought I saw 7 pm which meant for me 5 pm lol so I was resigned to the fact that I missed it later on I got a call and was told that it would be airing in a few minutes lol
alt: I thought he did a great job... if nothing else he explained, very well, that slave era research ain't easy and that you need to know some family, local, state & american history before you even start.
Daviss: so I got there right on time lol lol amen to that alt
Seventies Soulchild: Hello alt, hello Daviss
Daviss: hi seventies
alt: the way he explains it one can do themselves a big favor and 'hone' their research skills by doing 'contemporary' genealogy before tackling slave era genealogy.... I thought that was a 'highlight' of his presentation.
Seventies Soulchild: Hi alt. So let me tell you last night I went to talk to Mr. Matthews.
alt: Hello Seventies Soulchild, Happy pre-weekend to ya. LOL
Seventies Soulchild: And I got some good information.
alt: okay. I'm listening
Seventies Soulchild: He didn't know your Haynes or Ed Long...
alt: Hayden Oops, sorry
Seventies Soulchild: Ok so Mr. Matthews came to NY in 1939
Seventies Soulchild: He said that the first black officer at West Point during that time was a black nurse who was very fair skinned. However once they discovered that she was black, they gave her orders from West Point.... hmmmmm Good afternoon Selma
alt: hello Selma
Selma: Good Friday Mornin/Afternoon folks
Seventies Soulchild: He has a few books he's going to let me read up on. I'll see if Hayden is in the books.
AYWalton: Ahhh....there they are---the Gang of Four. lol Good afternoon, all.
Seventies Soulchild: Hey AYWalton
AYWalton: howdy alt, Daviss, Ms. Selma, SoulChile!
alt: hello AYWalton, how goes it?
AYWalton: going fine, just uploaded podcast so all is well.
Selma: Wow...the Gang of Four..where is Mao?
AYWalton: was going to go to the Archives today, but got a late start and changed my mind about it.
Seventies Soulchild: lol
Seventies Soulchild: Yes you have to open up the place to get anything done there.. lo
alt: AYWalton, is Mel Collier among your 23andme RF 'cousin' matches?
Seventies Soulchild: hi vicjorob
AYWalton: quite true SoulChile and since I was not there to open it up, I would not get the full benefit of being there. no he isn't, alt.
Selma: Do you all remember when Nixon went to China...All the people were dressed in Gray Mao jackets..and on bikes...Pat Nixon got off the plane in a Red coat
AYWalton: has he taken the 23andMe test?
alt: hello vicjorob
AYWalton: lol I did not realize that, Selma about the red coat.
vicjorob: Hi all!
AYWalton: howdy vicjorob!
Seventies Soulchild: The Nixons.... :?
alt: yes, Mel has and he is on the DNA tested AA FaceBook page AYWalton
Selma: At least that is what Iremember.. I am old you know.. LOL
AYWalton: Oh I have to check it out!!
Selma: President Nixon seventies..
AYWalton: I just saw it alt! I have to read and see what he says.
Seventies Soulchild: Made the wrong emoticon... meant this
AYWalton: He just got his results so the relative finder might not yet be updated.
alt: okay AYWalton
AYWalton: can't wait to see what shows up there!
Daviss: ok back...hello to all I have not seen
Seventies Soulchild: scroll up Daviss...
alt: and I think Charles Barker has done 23andme too AYWalton
Selma: Khathu said nicely what I always say "slave research" is everything you ever wanted to know, or didn't want to know about the slave owning family and then some
AYWalton: oh that's good! yes he made some interesting points last night. If you did not catch it there is always the archived broadcast!
Seventies Soulchild: hello vkn
vkn: hey hey hey
AYWalton: It was too bad the caller was shortened as they ran out of time.
Selma: Afternoon vkn
AYWalton: Greetings, vkn!!!!!!!!!!!!
alt: yes Selma, I was telling Daviss I thought the 'impact' of his show was that you need to some 'contemporary' research and learn some family. local, state & american history before you even think about doing slave era research.
Daviss: interesting Seventies, what was the nurse's name
vkn: AYW !!!!!!!!!!!
AYWalton: I liked that he mentioned starting with the contemporary family.
AYWalton: mentione = mentioned
alt: Hello vkn, how be's ya?
Daviss: hello AYWalton, Selma, vjorob and vkn!
AYWalton: wassup, Ms. Daviss????
Seventies Soulchild: He didn't tell me Daviss. Waiting to get the info. But from what I am to understand that there was a lot of recruiting of very fair skinned black folk to come to school.
Daviss: not anything that I know AY lol
alt: and I liked his term FAN research.... family, acquaintance & neighbor
Seventies Soulchild: I like that too alt
AYWalton: I liked that as well, alt.
Selma: I have heard that before..
AYWalton: I was not sure about using the slave schedule the same way.
vkn: Yes I thought FAN was good but he best get the copyright quick quick quick
alt: I called it 'cluster' or community and hadn't used it in that sense Selma
AYWalton: Although I use it to compile my "list of suspects" when searching for slave holders.
Seventies Soulchild: lol agree vkn
AYWalton: yes, we know there are lurkers and the next thing you know someone will be out there publishing something on using FANs for African American Research.
vkn: I too use suspects ayw
Daviss: Selma said she has heard the term before so it may already be copywrited
AYWalton: it's a useful term for sure!
vkn: but I learned to use that term in passing
Selma: Think I heard at a VGS seminar a number of years ago
AYWalton: it's a useful term. Alt, will you be going to the NGS conference? it will be in Cincinnati in 2012.
alt: his program centered on slave era research surrounding the CW & Reconstruction...showing me that there is even separate areas of slave research when you get into earlier manumissions and FPOC's.
Selma: Its catchy...and something easy to remember...
AYWalton: I plan on suggesting that Bernice consider continuing the topic.
Selma: She said there would be a part II
AYWalton: ahh----perhaps an AfriGeneas publication. it could be a series.
alt: Yes AYWalton, with NGS being in Cincinnati I sure plan on being there.
AYWalton: There are so many strategies. Alt have you looked at the schedule?
Seventies Soulchild: Well I'm still waiting for Hari Jones to come back for his part 2
Selma: How close in time is it to Samford AY
Seventies Soulchild: Which reminds me... brb
AYWalton: I took a quick look and saw several workshops for Afr. Am research, but the speakers were not Afr. Am at all. I may have overlooked some and will examine again later. NGS is May and Samford is mid-June.
alt: NGS ??? yes, not too overwhelmed with the AA inclusion in the programming, but......
AYWalton: but I hope that is not becoming a trend---take a look when you can, alt. perhaps AfriGeneas can submit and sponsor presenters or something.
AYWalton: i know that NGS has been a hard nut to crack for years.
alt: I saw Shelley and maybe 1-2 others.
vkn: Certainly it is a pattern ayw
AYWalton: I have submitted papers off and on. Others have as well. Some do get accepted, though. that is part of the old flavor of NGS--it was a land for blue blooded. and in some cases only blue bloods present about non-blue bloods.
Daviss: smh aywalton and a few people come to mind
alt: I'll be there mainly to support my genealogy 'friends' in OGS as they are doing a lot of the volunteer work for NGS.
vkn: Maybe there needs to be a howto session on formatting a proposal AYW
Daviss: I wonder how many of us'ns submit
AYWalton: yes, and they are speaking, Daviss. perhaps there is an accepted format for such hallowed halls such as NGS. I do recall that back in the 1990s several folks had submitted for NGS in Richmond--non were accepted except one--who was already in the good graces of the power brokers at NGS.
alt: there is... is it the "Chicago' (?) formt for CFP????
AYWalton: I would not know how to crack the NGS door open, but perhaps others do. I don't know, alt.
Daviss: 'Don't want to get to many, it might be to much color cordination going on
AYWalton: Well NONE is pretty safe, I guess.
alt: and then the NGS has such an early deadline for their CFP usually a year in advance... they are already accepting for 2013 ... as I understand it.
AYWalton: but there might be some speaking on generic topics. that makes sense to be early, no problem with that.
Selma: I don't go to NGS looking for them to do sessions on black folks..but I do go there for expert information on Wills and deeds and court order books etc...
AYWalton: there are several folks out there who do submit.
vkn: I guess being an avid reader of the journals may put one in the frame of presentation
AYWalton: that is a good strategy Selma.
alt: our folks don't ususally 'be early' AYWalton LOL
Selma: I have been to 3...I love em
vkn: Good point Selma
AYWalton: Not for organizations for sure, alt. speaking of which------------------------ I got an INVOICE from ASALH which I did not attend!!!!
AYWalton: I was initially going to be a speaker, and pulled out, notified the woman who invited me, and last week they sent me a BILL for the conference and for membership!!!!!!! talking about some insane nonsense!!!!!!
Selma: Tut, tut,tut.. LOL
AYWalton: these folks never acknowledged my pulling out----plus I NEVER registered!!
vkn: Well they ASALH are busy getting the word out so kudos for their PR peeps
AYWalton: now if THAT is not some sorry mess!!!!
Daviss: oops AYWalton, and how immediate was your response
alt: exactly Selma... as Khathu pointed out last night... the majority of the records used for researching enslaved ancestors once you back back to slavery will NOT be found in AA records.
Selma: NGS Journal had an article on Using Pension records written by Ruth Randall..
AYWalton: I responded to an email about 2 weeks ago that I never attended, nor registered!
Selma: or is it Rendall..
Daviss: vkn sent I sent you a msg on Talking
Selma: In slavery you are NOT generating the record
vkn: and there were two articles done by Del Jupiter
AYWalton: well if anyone has ties to ASALH folks tell them that their billing is unconscienable!
vkn: yassum daviss
AYWalton: (did I spell that right?)
Selma: Probably not..but we understand.. lOL
AYWalton: I recall the article years ago that Del did.
vkn: and then she recd an award for excellence the next year
AYWalton: I am a lapsed NGS member so don't get the journal these days. they have good articles, though.
Selma: The one Ruth did about 2 years ago was excellent researching familyAYWalton whose roots were in VA..after the Civil War they went to Philly and hid the fact they were from VA
vkn: who is the current editor of the journal Selma
Selma: and enslaved I don't know let me see if I have it around
AYWalton: sounds interesting. although the journal is dry in appearance, the content is good.
Selma: She stated that DuBose had said "a large percentage of the folks in Philly had roots in the South and enslaved"...but denied when they got there
vkn: Agreed AYW on the content
AYWalton: so what was the advantage of the denial of southern roots, when accent, and culture would have had "southern" written all over it? it does make me think of Dorothy Spruill Redford whose Aunt and Uncle pretended they were Jamaican.
vicjorob: AYWalton -- I love the NGS Journal. Great articles.
Selma: Editors are: Melinde Lutz Byrne and Thomas W. Jones Review Editor is Christopher A.Nordmann I love the VHS Journal too...2 great articles this edition.. I know that Nordmann name from somewhere
vicjorob: vkn - When would be a good time to chat about uploading data etc?
vkn: Selma I think the editor might be the guy doing the follow up work on the Mills Alabama FPOCs
Selma: You mean Nordmann?
vkn: Yes Nordmann he is on our mailing list Selma
AYWalton: their focus on people of color over the years has been interesting. Is there a tie that they have to POCs or FPOCs?
alt: that's my thing Selma Journals from State Genealogy Societies.... my mott for genealogy is a take-off of the the political thing... "it's all local"
vkn: You tell me when vicjorob I am avilable thr rest of this day
AYWalton: you are right, alt---it is truly a local venture!!
vicjorob: How about I call you after this chat? My cell is 7033147972
AYWalton: and we have to be ready to get local with the research.
Selma: July issue has article on Using Freedmen's Bureau Registers to Trace Enslaved Families..by Morna Lahnice Hollister
AYWalton: sounds like a good one, Selma!
Selma: Freedmen's Bank Records..not Bureau
AYWalton: ahhh ok. I do have to renew.
vkn: Gotcha vicjorob that is excellent 4043447177
Selma: But to be honest...I don't subscribe expecting to or looking for articles specifically focused on black folks
vicjorob: Selma - don't forget the Freedman's Bureau Records as well. Remember, they were required to set up a triad council of sorts in each community to review concerns brought to it by Freedman. My 2g grandmother's BIL Dr Daniel Norton served on the one for Yorktown.
Selma: You are related to Daniel Norton... wow..
vicjorob: Selma -- agreed. So little can be learned if we keep a narrow focus.
Selma: Have you looked at the info in RG 105
vicjorob: Yes, his son Dr. Nelson Frederick Norton was grandson to Nelson T Gant from Zanesville.
AYWalton: have to run, folks. have a good day.
vkn: that is why we must do history AND genealogy
Selma: I have transcribed a number of records in RG 105..they mention him and what was going in Yorktown
vicjorob: I am working on an article which chronicles some interesting similarities in court cases that Nelson T and Nelson F faced. Both were brought to trial 3 times for their individual cases.
vkn: and I guess one must also study culture
vicjorob: Yes, Dr Dan was a fascinating man. Too bad that his life was cut short by the flu outbreak of 1918. He and his wife both died within weeks of each other.
Selma: Black folk who research have no other choice that to expand their focus..cause their folks are NOT generating the records
vicjorob: Or perhaps were prevented from generating the records
Selma: Ok alt..sorry not all black folks..just the 90%
vicjorob: However, today we have no excuses.
vkn: But yall know we still be looking for the BLACK RECORDS
Daviss: . well after getting my DNA results lol lol lol
alt: an obsrvation I have with most AA's researching,, is their zeroing in on 'counties" where as in my research it has been more on an area of several surrounding counties as most FPOC were in counties where there was a small % of other AA's and they had to venture outside of their home turf to 'socialize & intermingle' with other AA's
vkn: uh oh now what daviss
Daviss: just joking vkn lol
Selma: That makes sense alt..
Daviss: newspaper articles tell that story alt
vkn: and much of that gets into the local newspapers of yesteryears alt
alt: right Selma. so I look at 'sections' in Ohio.
vicjorob: You know what would be cool to collect, are the names of local newspapers that had sections about "Our Colored Citizens" where they showcased the comings and goings of POC/FPOC.
vkn: Will send Tim a copy of this chat vicjorob
Daviss: I am still looking for that newspaper called the Vine in Ricmond Selma
alt: and for history... I look at Ross Co., Ohio in 1850.... My Allen, Walden ancestors were neighbors of Eston Hemmings, John Langston, etc.
Daviss: I was hoping that Ancestry would put it up
Selma: Oh jeez DAviss...I forgot about that..will put on my things todo in 2012
Daviss: lol lol Selma thanks
vkn: Also good to look at the Black Abolitionists papers
alt: vicjorob .. ahve you read the Zanesville Times REcorder from the early 1900's?
Selma: Was there a colored newspaper in Ohio in the 1850's alt? or columns in the local white newspapers
alt: they have a 'colored citizens' section.
vkn: Many of the papers had a limited lifespan
Daviss: The Editor was CC Sommerville Selma
Selma: Thank you Daviss.. LOL
Daviss: welcome lol
alt: Selma .. the Pallidium of Liberty in Ohio from 1843 was an early AA owned, operated, published paper from Columbus, Ohio
Selma: Are there extant issues..are they on line or available in an archives
vkn: Sommerville was in Clint Hayes research
alt: The Anti-Slavery ????? fro New Lisbon, Ohio was AA sponsored in the 1850's
Daviss: oh really vkn was he a VA researcher
alt: Go to the Ohio Historical Society page and search fro AA newspapers Selma
vkn: SC MS AL daviss
Daviss: oh ok
Selma: Ok..I was really just asking for general knowledge.. LOL
vkn: General Knowledge is one bad dude lol
alt: I know y'all get tired of me 'harping' on Ohio, but in the early 1800's it was the 'new frontier' not only for whites but blacks as the old northwest territory opened up for people of clor.
vicjorob: alt - yessirree! Have found a wealth of information in all the Zanesville papers. Luckily, they were among the first digitized by Ancestry.
vkn: harping is melodious alt
vicjorob: Selma - there was a paper in Columbus that had a good section on AAs.
alt: Gertrude Adams SAwyer, wife of Tuskegee Airmen and 'Ace" Harold Sawyer was a reporter for the Zanesville Times Recorder in the 1930's.... she is still living and quite active at age 97.
vicjorob: alt :o
vkn: Also in Jacksonville Alabama LOTS of news on people of color
vicjorob: alt - was she born in Zanesville? If so, then I bet she was delivered by Dr. Gee, who had married Nelson Gant's youngest daughter.
Selma: Ok..sorry on the phone
Daviss: well gotta run folks. cya later
alt: she was born near Marietta, Ohio, but the family had roots in Zanesville from the 1850's vicjorob
Selma: A Portsmouth VA paper in early 1900's had a column called "Colored Notes"
Seventies Soulchild: lol I'm back
Selma: Jeez..you been gone the whole chat..
alt: right Selma & vkn.. we miss a lot when we look at only AA newspapers and not the "white' newspapers in our home areas.
vicjorob: alt- if her maiden name was Adams, they may have been the descendants of the Adams folks who were freed in 1845 by John Nixon (same as Nelson Gant).
Seventies Soulchild: lol Selma!
vkn: agreed alt
Selma: Remember I will be quizzing you next week..you have the weekend to study.. LOL
vkn: lol uh oh
Seventies Soulchild: On it! lol
alt: the death notices for a 3rd grandmother and her mother, my 4th great=grandmother are reported in 'white' newspapers... in 1861 & 1864 course they were 'good colored folks' LOL LOL LOL
Selma: LOL On that not ..think I will go take a nap.. note
alt: nap well Selma
vicjorob: Yep. Those "good colored folks" were also remembered in many a county history volume. Some places even called it "Our Favorite Nigras"
Selma: Yes, they were... Lordy, lordy
Seventies Soulchild: :}
vkn: and always the bad colored as well
alt: you got it vicjorob
Selma: Makes you want to holla
Seventies Soulchild: No not holla, go out an whip some.... XD
Selma: I have done alot of cussing in libraries and archives
Seventies Soulchild: :?
vkn: Someone named muffin logged in but I cannot find
Selma: not muffin...ruffin
vkn: ahhhhh ok
vicjorob: But what really causes my bile to rise is when "official indexes" have systematically excluded the records of POC. Look at DAR transcriptions through the mid 1990s!
Selma: Yes...I have seen that
Seventies Soulchild: vicjorob. They don't think that we were worthy to be in their books or documented. Unless they think that they can make money.. lol
Selma: Now I really have to go take a nap..bye folks
Seventies Soulchild: bye Selma
alt: in 1905 the Champaign county Historical society did a featur on newspapers from 1805 in that county....100 pages.... one mention of an AA AME church... in 2005 they did another feature on newspapers from 1905-2005 and the community.... you know who was 'screaming and hollering' for meor inclusion of AA's and not a repeat of the 1905 fiasco.
vicjorob: But I have found a way to use it to my advantage. Compare these transcriptions to early indexes. What is missing will typically contain records of interest to AAs
Seventies Soulchild: Well why didn't THEY go out and do the history? They were just as capabable of doing it as anyone else.
alt: if that was for me Seventies Soulchild, they did, but it excluded the AA contribution to that community since 1810....
vkn: Good nite to all. I will listen to hear vicjorob 4043447177
Seventies Soulchild: I'm speaking of the people who were offended that the Historical society excluded them. What did they expect?
vicjorob: Gotta run. chat again soon.
alt: WE have to show them the way and MAKE them recognize OUR history Seventies Soulchild off my soapbox and outa here LOL LOL LOL
Seventies Soulchild: lol bye alt Have a good day
alt: you too