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2011-08-11 Black & White Ancestry ~ Probs


Start: 12:06:44
End: 14:04:02
Chatters: 3rdthawkins, alt, AYWalton, bearnut2, Ingrid_Doweary, Selma, Seventies Soulchild

alt: what's up Seventies Soulchild?

Seventies Soulchild: hi alt! nothing just taking a quick phone call from a contact.

alt: okay

Seventies Soulchild: how are you and your wife?

alt: we're both doing fine thanks, and you?

Seventies Soulchild: Doing well.

alt: good

Seventies Soulchild: I was reading an article about B'ham from the Alabama Pioneers blog today. Lots of favorable memories from the author.

alt: okay, your memories or the author's?

Seventies Soulchild: The authors.

alt: okay

Seventies Soulchild: I'm debating on perhaps covering this issue in a blog entry. Clearly the author comes from a different part of Birmingham.

alt: is this an AA author?

Seventies Soulchild: No

alt: then there were probably be a different 'set' of memories for the author and any AA LOL

Seventies Soulchild: I joined the mailing list for the blog to see if I could find information about slave owners and general history of the state. they have no AA information as far as I have seen. Clearly! lol Birmingham was still 'racial' even in the early 1980's when we used to visit during the summers.

alt: I have that experience all of the time when I reflect on my youth with white HS classmates, seems as if there were two different, parallel worlds. and we were in the same small town at the same time.

Seventies Soulchild: I remember one year, 1977 or 1978, we drove down south for an informal family reunion and we carried one of those bed pans so we wouldn't have to stop at a gas station to use the toilets. Isn't that something alt. I'm in my 30's I find I have the same experiences.

alt: and some of them have the 'nerve' to say "oh, we didn't 'know" when I relate some of the racial aspects of growing up in Piqua, OH.

Seventies Soulchild: Yes that age group seems to be in absolute denial about the pre-racial ... lol ... America or should I say 'racial' America? lol

alt: reading on the Forums about NY & MD and their problems with getting the test kits from 23andme.

Seventies Soulchild: I read that too. I think its because of the nature of their testing. lost my connection for a moment there...

alt: yes, NY & MD have some laws against the medical components of what 23and me is doing with their DNA testing.

Seventies Soulchild: I didn't have an issue with this in regards to my African Ancestry testing. all went smoothly.

alt: seems an MD's request is required to have the test done.

Seventies Soulchild: hello Selma

Selma: Good Thursday afternoon folks Hi 3rd

alt: Hello 3rdthawkins , how are ya?

3rdthawkins: ok alt listening to some music, playing with the equalizer, having fun

Selma: There is a state park here in Western Va..celebrating an anniversary..there was a wonderful article about the park in their local newspaper

Seventies Soulchild: is doing a webinar about Google + calling it the future.

3rdthawkins: where is that Selma?

Selma: A friend of mine grew up in that area of the park..wrote a wonderful article..about how the black folks who lived in the area could not go to the park.

Seventies Soulchild: do you have a link to the story Selma. Sounds like a good read.

Selma: When they had the big celebration the National Park Service invited her and the other folks as special guests

3rdthawkins: have to check that out 70s, not sure if i'm ready to add anything else, but i'll look into it, see what it's about

Selma: Yes, some where..think the Park is called Hungary Mother Park

3rdthawkins: hmm, interesting

Selma: If you are going to tell the history of a place give the whole history...

Seventies Soulchild: Yes, alt and I were sort of discussing that in regards to B'Ham I received a link to the Alabama Pioneers blog website about the authors fond memories of Birmingham and I was a bit perturbed about it. Especially when the nickname was "bomingham".

alt: History and the lack of AA's in it .... reminds of the saying "when the Lion writes the history..........." doing fine AYWalton & you?

AYWalton: doing ok, now that the weather is much cooler. Nice and dry and sunny.

alt: yeah, I'm enjoying the cooler weather we're having here in Ohio

AYWalton: Glad that heat dome is gone.

3rdthawkins: alt, did you get to watch the NFL hall of fame ceremony? some good speeches for Sharpe and Sanders

alt: Deborah is coming by for a visit this afternoon, she is in Yellow Springs, OH doing some research at Antioch Univ. Deborah Abbott

Selma: I posted the article to Afrigeneas Forum on April 5, 2011..title Smythe county va article access to state park Can we get to Afrigeneas Forum emails in the search site

AYWalton: tell her hello!

alt: okay, will do

Seventies Soulchild: Speaking on the Forums, I received a query about a Galmore family I know nothing about. I'm going to post the e-mail on the family surnames board to see what shakes up.

alt: good idea Seventies Soulchild

Seventies Soulchild: I think I have too many e-mail accounts... lol

alt: I missed the NFL Hall of Fame ceremonies 3rdthawkins

Seventies Soulchild: this one came in on my Thompson Galmore family e-mail account

3rdthawkins: mean while, Facebook is proving fruitful with the family group page, I think a couple of my uncles will be glad to know they share the same names as other's in the family

Seventies Soulchild: Hi Ingrid_Doweary and bearnut2

3rdthawkins: ok alt

Selma: Afternoon bearnut and Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey 3rd, Seventies, Bearnut, Alt, AYWalton and Selma. How is everyone?

Selma: Doing good Ingrid..and you

Seventies Soulchild: doing well.

AYWalton: howdy Ingrid.

alt: a family Facebook Page can work wonders 3rdthawkins, just have to try and stay away from the games, etc.

Ingrid_Doweary: I'm good. Still waiting for my remote access storage to download to my laptop. Cya AY.

3rdthawkins: doing good Ingrid, was thinking about you, came across some good books based on D.C. neighborhoods that had predominately AA residents, mainly Deanwood oh yeah, group pages don't include games alt, that's on individual accounts

Ingrid_Doweary: I concur with your suggestion about FB games, Alt.

bearnut2: Hi 3rdthawkins,Selma,Ingrid_Doweary ,Seventies Soulchild ,AYWalton alt

3rdthawkins: on google books Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Ah yes, 3rd. Do you remember the title?

3rdthawkins: I have the link, don't think I will post it, but will go to the site to see

Ingrid_Doweary: I frequent reading google books.

3rdthawkins: oops, I don't think I can PASTE it

alt: I know 3rdthawkins, but you kind of have to set some ground rules on those family pages... I know we had to do that for our Adams Family Page.

3rdthawkins: yeah, you're right alt

Seventies Soulchild: I'm disappointed that they removed the newspapers though.

Ingrid_Doweary: I got it, 3rd, got gmail.

bearnut2: I've found a definite connection via dna but not sure of the exact cousinship yet--I'm waiting for my cousin to ask her mom...:)

Ingrid_Doweary: How so, Seventies?

Selma: Congrats bearnut

bearnut2: thanks Selma

alt: yes bearnut2, congrats

Ingrid_Doweary: Congrats Bearnut2, did you encounter any more interesting finds?

Seventies Soulchild: Well they used to have the Woodville, MS newspaper online, I can't even find it any more.

3rdthawkins: Images of America Washington, D.C.'s Deanwood....The Deanwood History Committee shows pics of houses, there's also a mention of Helen Boroughs Ingrid

bearnut2: thanks alt ,Ingrid_Doweary --I'm talking with several cousins now to try to figure out relationships

Ingrid_Doweary: Oh cool, thanks 3rd. I'll bookmark it on my google books library.

Seventies Soulchild: It was very useful in my research as it covered much of life MS/LA area

alt: I sent for my 23andme kit bearnut2, got confirmation it is on the way.

Ingrid_Doweary: Wow Bearnut2! I see

bearnut2: cool alt--did you get one of the roots into the future ones?

alt: yes bearnut2, just to see how it compares to FTDNA and also t let some relatives know what to expect from 23andme

bearnut2: Seventies Soulchild --Its nice to hear some folks have had luck with google books--I haven't :(

Seventies Soulchild: sorry bearnut2.

bearnut2: wont keep me from searching though! lol

Ingrid_Doweary: Is that Washington At Home, 3rd?

Seventies Soulchild: Now, what I want to get access is to some of these old Nat'l Geographics.

Ingrid_Doweary: What difficulties are you having with Google Books, Seventies?

alt: how are you setting up your search parameters for Google searches bearnut2? Are you using ("'s) & (+'s)?

3rdthawkins: no Ingrid_Doweary i just typed in Deanwood neighborhood washington dc and it's the first link

Ingrid_Doweary: Oh okay.

Seventies Soulchild: Can't find my newspaper that was there a few months ago.

bearnut2: alt I use the quote marks but haven't tried pluses yet Seventies Soulchild --I think I remember reading that they were discontinuing their newspaper project

3rdthawkins: so you can use +'s, I know about the * but I use that for the web search, haven't tried it for google books

Seventies Soulchild: right.

Ingrid_Doweary: Looks like Washington, DC's Deanwood, 3rd

3rdthawkins: yes Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Good, got it.

bearnut2: alt thanks for the tip--I'll try pluses....3rdthawkins --I didn't know we could use *, I'll definitely try those too!

Ingrid_Doweary: Have you tried to access the newspapers through your public library patron number? The question was for Seventies. bearnut2 wb

bearnut2: oops got knocked off

Seventies Soulchild: No. Not sure if they are available any other way.

bearnut2: Ingrid_Doweary thanks! lol

Ingrid_Doweary: Glad you were able to rejoin us.

Seventies Soulchild: I'll brb y'all

alt: Shamele Jordan has a PP presentation of Google searches, very good tips.

bearnut2: alt--where can we find that

3rdthawkins: bearnut2, the * is for filling in the blanks, if you do't know a middle name for a person, you can put "John * Doe" OR "Doe, John *" including quotations, you can use that for any searches when you don't know the full title I don't know if it works for google books though

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins ah, ok. I've only used it as a stand in for letters in a name like sm*th when you want to capture i's and y's and any other letter

alt: I saw her do it at a conference bearnut2.. I'll check my 'stuff' and see what I have from her presentation from the OGS syllabus and send it to you if you like.

3rdthawkins: mainly for words bearnut2, don't think it will do letters

bearnut2: OH !I thought you were saying you use it for google books.

3rdthawkins: words/names

Seventies Soulchild: ok I've got to go. Have a good afternoon everyone

3rdthawkins: you can try it bearnut

bearnut2: alt --yes I'd love that thanks!

alt: I can get your email from the Forums, right bearnut2?

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins I've used the * on ancestry for letters in names alt yes or I'll give it to you

3rdthawkins: not same as ancestry bearnut, totally different venue

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins --Ok I'm officially lost lol so where are you telling me that you use *'s?

alt: gotcha bearnut2, it will come from so don't throw me into the junk pile LOL

3rdthawkins: Google Search bearnut

bearnut2: never alt never! lol

alt: okay

Ingrid_Doweary: Interesting bio on Shamele Jordan, Alt.

alt: she's good, very good Ingrid_Doweary

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins ok! gotcha lol now I'm "found!" lol

Ingrid_Doweary: Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it, Alt and bearnut2 . :)

bearnut2: lol

alt: Shamele is a genie-pro in every sense of the word research & tech-wise. plus she is just plain "good people"

bearnut2: I wonder if she will be at the conference in Indiana in Oct

Ingrid_Doweary: I want to be like her when I grow up, Alt. :}

alt: yep, she'll be in Ft. Wayne bearnut2

bearnut2: Yay! I can hardly wait!

Ingrid_Doweary: Selma, what recent adventures have you encountered recently?

alt: I can tell bearnut2 LOL

Selma: No adventures Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Anything?

alt: Ingrid_Doweary, are you going to the FGS in Springfield, IL.. that's near your home turf, right?

Ingrid_Doweary: It's near my hometown. I'm not sure if I'm going yet.

bearnut2: where are you Ingrid_Doweary ?

Ingrid_Doweary: I'm in Washington, DC.

bearnut2: Oh--your childhood hometown, not now

Ingrid_Doweary: You got it, bearnut2. :}

bearnut2: I was hoping it was now--I'm in st. louis.

alt: I won't be in Illinois either, got Columbus, OH & Indianapolis to do in Sept/Oct as well as Ft. Wayne.

Ingrid_Doweary: My family and I took a trip to Ocean City, MD this past Sunday. I always enjoy traveling through Eaton and Tuckahoe-birthplaces of Frederick Douglas and Harriet Tubman.

alt: bearnut2, are you in the St. Louis group with Charles Brown?

bearnut2: I had planned on IL since its so close but my Genealogy society is going to Ft Wayne so I'm going with them.

3rdthawkins: forget them, I like traveling through my own Ancestors' birthplaces

bearnut2: alt--yes

Ingrid_Doweary: ahhh, 3rd.

3rdthawkins: as the white lady said on Color Purple, I don't know him, and I don't know her either

alt: ah so bearnut2, Charles Brown seems like such an 'energetic' person.. talked with him a couple of times on the phone.

Ingrid_Doweary: There is a highway named after Harriet Tubman. I've got to nail down it's location.

3rdthawkins: google maps Ingrid google search also

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey 3rd, are you referring to Tubman and Douglass

3rdthawkins: lol yep

bearnut2: that he is alt! Very nice guy. I just joined a few months ago but its great getting together with other black genealogists

3rdthawkins: it was a joke Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: I know 3rd, but I actually rode on the bridge. :D I did get the joke, 3rd.

3rdthawkins: ok hehe

Ingrid_Doweary: Haha lol lol

bearnut2: ...getting together in person that is

3rdthawkins: but I bet it is something to be able to traveling through those towns/cities, I bet it is exciting historically speaking, it is a great feeling

alt: I hope you're joking 3rdthawkins , cause you often sound so anti-black & pro-white I often have difficulty understanding it as a 'joke'

Ingrid_Doweary: Indeed, I enjoy noting the additional historic markers. All in fun, Alt, all in fun LOL LOL

3rdthawkins: I like to ruffle some feathers, hehe

Ingrid_Doweary: I see.

3rdthawkins: ok, I go overboard

alt: I reckon Ingrid_Doweary ... and you can frequently consider my 'feathers ruffled" 3rdthawkins

3rdthawkins: but you all sound sooooo pro, black and Anti-any other race, it's crazy, gotta bring it down in here sometimes

Ingrid_Doweary: It is what it is, Alt.

3rdthawkins: or try to

Ingrid_Doweary: But 3rd, sounding pro-black doesn't necessarily mean anti-anything else all of the time.

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins granted, I havent been here much but I've never seen anyone be "Anti-any other race" here...(???)

3rdthawkins: I have ancestors that are white, and I prefer to accept them and appreciate them as much as my black ancestors

Ingrid_Doweary: I concur bearnut2.

3rdthawkins: it's like, get together and talk about how bad we got it and how awful whites are treating us

Selma: 3rd..probably 80% of black folk in America got white ancestors..

Ingrid_Doweary: As do I, 3rd.

alt: and I have white ancestors too 3rdthawkins ... and descendant's w/ children & grandchildren having white 'mates'.

3rdthawkins: yeah, I forget that

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins I think we ALL have white ancestors and as soon as I can figure out WHO they are, I'll accept an appreciate them lol

Selma: I am sure you might get more help in an Irish chat..

3rdthawkins: mine are just closer to some, is what I am saying

Ingrid_Doweary: I see some folks love to get a rise out of others.

3rdthawkins: closer than some, generationally speaking Ingrid, I just hate the We Are Victims talk all the time

alt: how close can you get than having inter-racial grandchildren & grandparents 3rdthawkins and a son-in-law

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins I can understand that...but no one here wants you to deny your ancestors.

3rdthawkins: I see what you are saying alt, you're the man, no need to go anywhere with you, I can't hate on you

Ingrid_Doweary: Now Selma, what information would be forthcoming in the Irish chat?

Selma: I have no idea Ingrid..but that is one of the groups 3rd claims kinship to

3rdthawkins: sometimes I feel like I should dislike my white family members alt, and you don't have that support here in chat, at least doesn't sound like it

alt: no lecture from here 3rdthawkins, it's as all are saying, we ALL probably have some Euro in us.

Ingrid_Doweary: I see. I'm afraid I'm going to have to claim some kinship with the Irish given my maiden and married surnames are Irish based.

bearnut2: I am one of the most anti-prejudiced folks around--I have friends and family of all races BUT sometimes you just have to call it like it is. Racism in the US is very real. And sometimes in the "age of President Obama" folks tend to forget that.

3rdthawkins: I should say sometimes I feel like I should dislike my white ancestors when I am here in chat, there's no support here to accept them, it's always, look at what the white folks did and are still doing to us

Ingrid_Doweary: Hear hear, bearnut2 ? ?=!

Selma: 3rd from your postings it appears that those white ancestors of yours have denied their black connections, or you wouldn't be having such a hard time identifying them

3rdthawkins: not sure what you are talking about Selma...mainly it's the blacks that deny their black connections and marry white black ancestors that deny black connections

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins--have you done a dna test yet?

3rdthawkins: no, don't plan on it

bearnut2: Why?

3rdthawkins: I don't bearnut

bearnut2: I only mention it because at 23andme there are folks on the boards--black/white/asian/and everything else who embrace ALL of their ancestry. It might be a place you'd like to hang out.

Ingrid_Doweary: All groups are guilty of denying someone.

bearnut2: Though actually I think you can hang out there without having done a test there...

alt: I'm not sure there was any denial of 'blackness' or any 'over zealous' recognition of white ancestry in my family background 3rdthawkins... iit seems as if it 'just happened' due to amny circumstances.

Ingrid_Doweary: I comprehend that, Alt.

3rdthawkins: yeah, mine doesn't go far back as you all's, so there was an overzealousness, especially since an uncle perfussly did not want his brother to marry a black woman, and told the woman she was not welcomed. My grandfather did not accept his brother's wife in his house, only his brother.... actually, it was my great grandfather that did not want his brother to marry black, and my grandfather that did not accept his brother's black wife

Selma: According to you wasn't your great grandfather black but wanted to be seen as white

bearnut2: 3rdthawkins wow! but you know some of "us" are like that...

alt: heck, I have folks in my family (black) who do not accept the black wives of some of their kinfolks. LOL

Ingrid_Doweary: I can appreciate how that would generate some family heartbreak. 3rd's family story, that is.

3rdthawkins: my grandfather Selma, yes, but there is new information about my great grandfather (my grandmother's father), that i suspected, he tried to pass for white also

bearnut2: I remember my very fair skinned grandmother pinching my nose so it wouldn't be wide

3rdthawkins: funny thing about my great grandfather, his brother's wife ended up raising his daughters after he and his wife had died

bearnut2: quite ironic 3rdthawkins

Selma: In essence the problem here is not with US..but with the culture in which they lived..we just research folks where and how we find them..but we or at least I will NOT sugar coat it

3rdthawkins: yeah, it's crazy, because neither my great grandfather nor my grandfather succeeded in their quest

Ingrid_Doweary: I comprehend what you say, Selma.

Selma: So what was their QUEST..

bearnut2: I agree Selma

3rdthawkins: My father and his brothers (all the boys) see themselves as African American, though the girls see themselves as either white or just non AA To identify as White Selma, and for their children to do the same, but it didn't totally work

Ingrid_Doweary: I guess their QUEST is what we are left to determine once we find them.

alt: I hear ya Selma... and I won't try to judge the actions taken by those in the 1800's or early 1900's... by a standard of the 21st century.

Ingrid_Doweary: That makes all the sense in the world, Alt.

3rdthawkins: My grandmother even identified as AA, see just went along with what my grandfather was doing

Selma: She went along..or the community in which she lived saw her as such and treated her in the context of what that meant.

Ingrid_Doweary: So 3rd, if I may ask. How does your father identify himself?

bearnut2: Whats funny 3rdthawkins is that it didn't really matter what they identified themselves as because the "world" was identifying them as AA. If their neighbors/friends knew the family was AA they would have had to move Far far away in order to change that.

3rdthawkins: No Selma, she went along with HIM

Selma: Agreed bearnut

alt: you know 3rdthawkins, how one wants to be seen and how one is actually seen by the rest of the world are two different views... often not compatible.

3rdthawkins: you should try and tell my grandfather that alt, lol as I was told, he actually thought the world was gonna accept him and his children as White, and they didn't

bearnut2: lol 3rdthawkins

alt: that's .... tragic ..... 3rdthawkins

3rdthawkins: it is alt, you said it, and I see it when I talk with my dad an uncle because grandpa was only a disciplinarian, and emphasized education, but there was no direction, no guidance, no telling them what they should do and how, they just had to do it, and he didn't want to hear anything about it, he wouldn't talk to them about it when they had questions he would later tell them, You're not White, You're not Black, You're In Between, Which Gave them Nothing. NO Identity when they was looking for it he left them searching, and as I see, my uncles are still searching for who they are who they want to be

bearnut2: interesting--but really 3rdthawkins, its not actually the black members of your family who didn't want to accept black folks, it was the mixed-white-self-identified members of your family who didn't want to accept their own african ancestry and therefore rejected other black folks.

3rdthawkins: it more affected the boys than the girls, the girls either marry foreigners or marry white, only one girl is not married, she is much like the boys I guess bearnut, kind of hard to say that

alt: I'm confused 3rdthawkins,, what genearation, how far back in this line were the folks actually 'white' and not just light-skinned blacks who attempted to pass as white?

3rdthawkins: well my grandfather born in 1924 basically tried to pass in 1940s, and my great grnadfather who was born abt 1903 and tried to pass in 1920s and 1930s in New York

bearnut2: yeah, I know. It goes counter to what you've believed to be true. But given the culture of the times they lived in, its not hard to see why it would have been "easier" to be white.

3rdthawkins: true bearnut2, it's not really, I understand

Selma: But it didn't work for either of them 3rd?

alt: so did your grandfather (1903) have a white parent?

3rdthawkins: nope Selma great grandfather alt in 1903, yeah, Jessie Lum Hawkins, she was basically white

alt: basically????

3rdthawkins: well, there's the Chinese stuff going on, she looked white to me

Selma: How is she described in the census? How is she identified in the community in which she lived?

3rdthawkins: Negro not even mulatto, just Black or Negro

Ingrid_Doweary: Which census year was this, 3rd. ?

3rdthawkins: all Ingrid, 1900-1930 during that time she was married to my grgr gf

alt: my father born in 1894 had a grandfather born in slavery with a white father, but my father and his father were light-skinned blacks who always slf-identified as blacks

bearnut2: and your gr gr gf was racially identified how?

3rdthawkins: who was, as my great grandmother Ella told my father and his siblings, Blacker than an Ace of Spades black bearnut, he was dark-skinned my grandfather was furious when she told his kids that

alt: that is my Y-DNA heritage... white.

bearnut2: I'm a bit confused...3rdthawkins do you have any actual caucasian ancestors who were identified as such in the census?

3rdthawkins: nope bearnut2

Selma: So who are all these white folks...that you claim we are always "hating" in the chat

3rdthawkins: speaking of my grandmother's maternal family, they are white

Ingrid_Doweary: But you know what, bearnut2. There must be some other documents which identified one of the ancestors as white. It's just not ID on any census records.

3rdthawkins: my grandmother's mother was white, as I said, my great grandfather tired to pass for white in NY, he married white

bearnut2: Ingrid_Doweary yeah that true--the census is just the first thing that came to mind. lol

Ingrid_Doweary: I understand, bearnut2 lol

bearnut2: ok 3rdthawkins thanks for the explanation

Selma: and the woman that he married is identified on the records you have found? as white

alt: is this the same set of grandparents 3rdthawkins ... your grandmother's mother ... and the white woman your great-grandfather married?

3rdthawkins: yes alt Negro Selma go figure

Selma: so when you say he married white..who is white?

3rdthawkins: my great grandmother

bearnut2: great grandmother ella?

Selma: Ok enough for me..gotta run...

3rdthawkins: Ella was my grandfather's mother bearnut2, I'm speaking of my grandmother's mother

Selma: Have a great day

bearnut2: bye selma

3rdthawkins: I don't need any of you to understand, I know what i am talking about

bearnut2: ok--now i get it--maybe we need to use paternal and maternal signifiers lol

alt: that's what is confusing ... when you say "my' and not 'a' it is hard to follow which ancestral line you're speaking of.

3rdthawkins: I feel disconnected with I say "a", I like to feel connected so I say my,

bearnut2: ok 3rdthawkins we were just trying to get it straight

3rdthawkins: with-when

alt: you're right 3rdthawkins, you know what you know and don't need to explain it to us except when you 'draw' us into the conversation in trying to explain your research....

3rdthawkins: I know Selma want's to say because the records say negro or black, then I am suppose to accept my ancestor as black, but I am going by stories told by people who either saw the person or is a daughter of the person who saw the woman

alt: when I say "my' great-grandparent.. which line am I talking about.. I have eight (8) great parental lines.

3rdthawkins: his second wife also was white I see alt

bearnut2: well--I need to get off of here and get something done. Its been an enlightening conversation. Thanks 3rdthawkins for sharing with us. Catch ya'll later--alt, Ingrid_Doweary, and 3rdthawkins

Ingrid_Doweary: Cya Bearnut2

alt: take care bearnut2

3rdthawkins: cya bearnut

alt: and i should go too.. thanks for bearing with us 3rdthawkins.. we aren't meaning to be personally attacking you.

Ingrid_Doweary: It's time for me to work on my family history briefing for my husband's family reunion in York, PA this Saturday.

3rdthawkins: ok then, alright alt and INgrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Have a great day, folks.

18 Dec 2002 :: 1 Feb 2009
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