** Chats Lobby

Start: 15:01:23
End: 18:46:46
Chatters: 3rdthawkins, keli1

keli1: are you here

3rdthawkins: yeah, I'm here

keli1: wow, it switched us on Ruth's birth certificate, does it say where she was born? and her date?

3rdthawkins: yeah, chat closed, we can go to this chatroom also http://www.gendepository.com/chat.html just in case this one shuts us out too I have not gotten my grandmother's birth certificate yet, but I am planning on getting it, perhaps it will shed some light on her mother's birhtplace

keli1: and that would be Ruth Hawkins, when did she pass

3rdthawkins: if you mean death certificate, unfortunately, it just gives U.S. for birthplace, and only gives her age my grandmother passed in 2005

keli1: did Dennis do anytime in the military

3rdthawkins: no, he died during the war

keli1: what is ruth's married name

3rdthawkins: do you have to ask lol Hawkins

keli1: her married name, not maiden

3rdthawkins: right, married name :} her married and maiden name both are Hawkins

keli1: ruth is the child of Mada and Dennis Hawkins, oh okay..got it

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: hawkins hawkins, lol

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: interesting she died in NY?

3rdthawkins: no Florida

keli1: she died in Florida, what is hubby's name

3rdthawkins: Thomas

keli1: ruth marie hawkins

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: well we know she was born in NY, did you find her birth record?

3rdthawkins: no, I am planning on ordering it I know when she was born, just have to get her BC

keli1: the one I see has different parents, Thomas and Valerie oh valerie is her daughter 23 aug 1930 n ny, ny

3rdthawkins: oh please, ignore that tree

keli1: k

3rdthawkins: someone was helping a famiy member do research and I gave them information for my grandparents

keli1: did she die in St. Pete

3rdthawkins: yep well, no, but that is what the SSDI says last residence,

keli1: lol who was in the Navy, thomas?

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: okay I am trying to see if her death record is online

3rdthawkins: SSDI should be, I think there's also an obit in Ancestry's Obituary collectio but I do have her obit though

keli1: yea I am reading her obit now when did Dennis die? and did he die in NY?

3rdthawkins: 1943, yes, Queens

keli1: it will be interesting to find out what mada really stands for,

3rdthawkins: yeah, I know, wonder if it will be on my grandmother's birthcertificate and if it says Mada, I'm gonna pull my hair out

keli1: it might be, lol..

3rdthawkins: I'm not sure where my grandmotehr got her mother's name from, who gave it to her, or if she knew it all along

keli1: who knows, Mada is going to drive me crazy...

3rdthawkins: lol welcome to my world

keli1: oh I have a "mada" in my family as well, her name is Nellie Giles

3rdthawkins: oh, ok, so you know what I am going through then, hehe

keli1: oh yea, Nellie died between 1910-1915 and was living in Iowa, and she didn't die there, cant find her or her second husband

3rdthawkins: oh, wow

keli1: she married my gg grandfather named William Michael Murphy, can't find the marriage certificate either, my grandfather was born in 1887, so they should of married before then, but her second marriage was in 1896, as is her second child finding the marriage record is key in both situations

3rdthawkins: yep, definitely if nothing else, timeline

keli1: where did these folks meet is what is critical....did the jefferson's go to NY

3rdthawkins: right, it is and I'm not sure if she went with her parents or by herself, or with Dennis, and when she went

keli1: no oral history

3rdthawkins: nope the two who would know died young, and that was Dennis and Ruth.....My grandmother and her siblings were too young when their parents died, no one else in the family would know, any information that was known died with the person/people.

keli1: you have to track all family members, pull death, marriage etc, you never know where the clues will come from

3rdthawkins: no one knows really, she died so young, all people know of her is what she looked liked wish I could find marriages of Dennis' siblings, can't find them either, and I believe most of them married in NY that went to NY

keli1: or SC

3rdthawkins: there's a few siblings I cannot find in 1930 that I am certain was still living

keli1: the presentation I am working highlights the importance of researching the whole family

3rdthawkins: I'm doing that now keli1, trust me, just hard to find them all, I have got in contact with a Hawkins cousin, actual a 3rd cousin of mine just a few years older than me, hoping to get more info, but she explained no one knows anything about Dennis she's also doing research and trying to find info on all of our great great grandparents' children, so we will exchange info

keli1: there is hope!

3rdthawkins: one thing, I am trying to see where she was buried, she was buried in Saint Stephen, SC, but no cemetery is listed, and I am not trying to call the funeral home because I am afraid they won't have anything for that time, just too long the funeral home in South Carolina that waas involved doesn't exist anymore, the one in NY still in existent but not sure about calling that

keli1: that is in Berkerly, so they took her home

3rdthawkins: no, she was born in Virginia

keli1: her hubby was from there, why is she buried in SC

3rdthawkins: I think because that's where her husband wanted to bury her, he was in charge of her burial, he was given a permit (I have the paper)

keli1: wonder if the Jefferson' also moved somewhere down there

3rdthawkins: I don't know, they were white, not sure if they wanted anything to do with them, but then again, you could be right

keli1: lol, you never know, you are sure Mada was white? or was she mulatto

3rdthawkins: she was definitely white my grandmother and three of her sisters are all white, except the youngest who is the same complexion as the father, he was tan complexion, his mother Jessie was also white (or at least half white)

keli1: and Dennis was negro?

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: if the jefferson's were white, maybe they were not legally married (Hawkins)

3rdthawkins: well, it was not illegal in New York for interacial couples to marry, Dennis' second wife was also white, and there is a marriage record for them, I just have to order it

keli1: correct

3rdthawkins: I believe they were, just have to find a marriage date for them

keli1: yes, I agree, if there is one, it is time for apple pie. where in MS are you?

3rdthawkins: Joplin, MS MO

keli1: okay MO

3rdthawkins: so, no birth records in VA around 1910?

keli1: yes there are

3rdthawkins: wonder if it would be possible to get or find Ruth's w/o knowing exact DOB

keli1: I think it was in her obit, she was born in 1931 NY has city directories as well

3rdthawkins: no, I mean my grandmother's mother for Queens? everytime I try for Queens, there's nothing

keli1: mada?

3rdthawkins: yes, her, for her BC or birth record in Virginia

keli1: there are tons of James Jefferson's in Virginia,

3rdthawkins: born between 1870 and 1890? not being able to find them makes me doubt the name or question whether he had a nickname or something, not sure what it is. I also wonder if they were actually bo in VA, and instead, in another country and immigrated to this country to VA, and then moved from VA to NY, something like that or middle name

keli1: yea, but you never know you will just have to back track by getting the death and marriage records, make sure you get Ruth's marriage record, something might be there

3rdthawkins: who, my grandmother's I mean, which Ruth keli1, my grandmother's?

keli1: you only told me of one Ruth, and that is Ruth Hawkins Hawkins, daugther of Dennis and Mada Jefferson, daughter of James and Anna

3rdthawkins: yes, I have my grandmother's marriage record to her husband, doesn't say much other than residence. keli1 and date of birth

keli1: where did she marry? new york? and where does it say she was born, residencey

3rdthawkins: they married in Washington, D.C. 1949, residence was Long Island, NY no birthplace, only date of birth to verify that she was of age to marry

keli1: wonder why in DC

3rdthawkins: my grandfather was stationed there, and that's where he was living when he was going to school there

keli1: and why was she there

3rdthawkins: that's where my dad was born and where they raised their children, I was born there I'm thinking about some point she was dating my grandfather and moved to D.C. with him about-At some point she moved there as early as May of 1949 she got a job with the government by June of 1949, and married my grandfather Sep of '49

keli1: interesting, her children should of known why, is there a family bible

3rdthawkins: no, no family bible, they kept a lot of their family past hidden from their kids my dad and aunts and uncles only know a few family members, those who their parents allowed the mto know them to know still there keli1 ok gotta go keli1, nice talking with you, thx for your help

keli1: oops

*SunMornBrnch

Start: 11:17:20
End: 15:00:43
Chatters: 3rdthawkins, alt, AYWalton, daviss, deannie, freeaainnc, Ingrid_Doweary, jhonora, keli1, Khathu, Selma, seraph1959

deannie: hi 3rd you are in early

3rdthawkins: hey Khathu

Khathu: good morning

3rdthawkins: Khathu, you havent' done much research outsie of Texas, have you? like East Coast

AYWalton: Well good morning, folks! greetings, Khathu!!! I see you are early birds.

Khathu: I have done research in the Carolinas, Virginia, Alabama, Georgia and Louisiana outside of Texas, the Carolinas and Virginia is where I have done a bulk of research Hello AYWalton

3rdthawkins: ok, was looking into migration from the South (South Carolina) to the north (new York) wondering if there would be any paper trails to follow them, how they got up there and when they left the south, things like that, they seem to have left in groups or something

AYWalton: Do you have any presentations coming up soon, Khahtu?

3rdthawkins: in the 1920s

Khathu: Nothing yet AYWalton But I did make myself available to the Baltimore Chapter

AYWalton: to answer that question you have to research the people in those groups even if they are not your family----the reason why looking at people outside your family---because your family associated with people---relatives or not.

Khathu: cluster research

AYWalton: otherwise you are caught in a tunnel and won't get out. can't have blinders on. several folks from Baltimore were at your presentation in Columbia Khathu!

3rdthawkins: yeah, that's what Im doing now AY, I am looking at a census for 1930 with my great grandfather's brother, there is a group of people all born in South Carolina and parents born in South Carolina, and am diong some research on them

AYWalton: I was delighted to see that many did show up, in fact. well that's good to hear, 3rd.

Khathu: yes.....Doriene stated that Baltimore would be interested in having me present

AYWalton: I know a few chats ago you indicated that you were not interested in people who were not related. Glad that you have taken a look at others. You can answer many questions that way, and open up some doors. Khathu will you be going to NGS this year?

Khathu: I haven't planned on going

AYWalton: you should consider presenting in 2012 at NGS. They have a deadline of April 1, I believe. time to submit some proposals. I have not yet seen the deadline for FGS.

Khathu: i will definitely consider it

3rdthawkins: yes, I'll do research on people that possibly can help me locate family and understand their movemnts, but just not on someone that's totally has nothing to do with my family, you know...... that's what i was saying

AYWalton: how do you know they have totally nothing to do with your family? If you don't research them----you don't know. that is why it is called research----to find out the things that you don't know. otherwise if you know----then there is no reason to search---because you already know. if you know every maiden name, every spouse, then you don't have to research.

3rdthawkins: ok :}

AYWalton: to say totally-----means that other possibilities---don't exist. any interesting seminars coming up for you khathu?

Khathu: none i need to start promoting myself

AYWalton: I have been looking at some of the seminars offered at NGS, though I am not certain that I will attend or not. you ned to Khathu, you have good experience. and we need to have more speakers.

Khathu: i want to submit a few more articles to the historical and genealogical societies in Indiana, Virginia, South Carolina and Texas of course

AYWalton: I talked about that in one of my podcasts----I see some of the same people taking notes on the same things every year. have you been updating your blog of late? If so, you need to promote your updates on Twitter. there is a very large genealogy following there and that is how I am connecting with a cadre of other genealogical researchers. will you be attending Samford in 2012 Khathu? you should try to schedule it if you can. for the Afr. Am. track.

Khathu: i will have more vacation time next year so i will definitely try

AYWalton: I was amazed at the number of Afr. Americans who attend the Samford institute. And not just for the Afr. Am track, either.

Khathu: i am trying to blog at least once a week

AYWalton: then you have to let the world know about your updates. I used Twitter exclusively for genealogy updates. and I now have 378 followers. small number in comparison to some who have over 1000.

Khathu: okay...i think the unique thing apart my presentation is that i do not start with 1865 but i start in the present and work to 1865

AYWalton: but that is the way it should be done, and that was correct. what organizations have you joined for 2011, khathu? and will you present at Ft. Wayne in the fall/

Khathu: i haven't joined any yet

AYWalton: I have to renew memberships. Plus waiting for the Call for papers for AAHGS and for Ft. Wayne. You should also present, khathu. it's time. just schedule your days off for those events.

Khathu: with the new job, i am still trying to build up my leave and the schedule

AYWalton: Yes, I know how that can be with leave time. Build up that leave and use it when you can, for genealogy events that might occur on weekdays. Most are around weekends, thankfully.

Khathu: i just started so i have no leave yet

3rdthawkins: hey alt, feeling better?

alt: hello All, 3rd, Khathu & AYWalton

AYWalton: Howdy alt!!! How are you feeling?

alt: Much better 3rdthawkins, starting to feel 'alive' again.

AYWalton: Hope that flu bug has been shaken!

3rdthawkins: great!

Khathu: Hello alt

3rdthawkins: Khathu, have you ever found your other family you were looking for, not the one from last nite?

AYWalton: Don't try to do too much, alt, that flu can get you down again.

Khathu: 3rd - i did some follow-up online on Lorenza Williams from Anderson Co, TX. Now I need to start examining county records

AYWalton: Khathu do you have research travel plans for this year?

3rdthawkins: ok, what about your other family you were looking foor, I forgot the name, but I think it was a tough name to search for

Khathu: Virginia and the Carolinas

alt: thanks AYWalton, an don't worry I'm not in the mood for a relapse.

Khathu: in particular South carolina

AYWalton: I hear ya, alt.

Khathu: 3rd, i am not sure which surname you are referring to - boozer maybe

3rdthawkins: that may be it, been a while just seeing if you found anything.,........but

Khathu: 3rd, i have so many surnames i am reseaching it is hard to keep track

3rdthawkins: lol, ok, i understand

Khathu: keep in mind i am doing all of the collateral lines as well

3rdthawkins: I see.....

Khathu: as well as the communities in which my ancestored lived

alt: I've had time to do some reflecting and think I have a good story to relate. the story involves, genealogy, family history... UGRR, USCT, FPOC, community and covers the period of ca 1820 up to the CW... goona do it for a BHM story. and it involves really only two families.

3rdthawkins: all of those letters, huh?

alt: great to hear your approach has become much broader Khathu

Khathu: that has been my approach for the past few years now

alt: I did an UGRR Seminar last May (2010) one of the safehouses we toured built in 1850 was a house I'm sure involved my ancestors... as the owners and my ancestors were children of parents who chartered an AME church in 1824.

AYWalton: Greetings, daviss!!!!!!!

alt: hello daviss

daviss: hello there y'all!

AYWalton: good to see you this morning. Hope all is well. has Mariah popped up, daviss? lol

Khathu: hello daviss

daviss: lol AYwalton I was just scrolling back to catch up on chat

AYWalton: just thought I would ask, daviss.

daviss: lol lol hey you know you would not even have to ask I would find the nearest mountain top

3rdthawkins: seriously, if she did, we wouldn't even have to ask, daviss would let us know

daviss: khathu I am reading up on your talk of a new job, is it in your same area of town?

AYWalton: Greetings, Ms. Selma!!

daviss: glad to see you here alt. You must be feeling better

Selma: Good Sunday morning everyone..

alt: hello Selma,

daviss: hello Selma!

alt: able to sit up and take nourishment daviss, that's about it daviss.

daviss: soon alt! you will feel much much better

AYWalton: brb

Selma: Well at least in the chat..you only have to keep your eyes and fingers busy alt... No exertion..

daviss: I guess a couple of days ago when I asked for your phone number it was for a good reason under disguise. To check up on my buddy

alt: and that's good Selma LOL

Selma: Unless somebody types something that makes you mad..LOL

daviss: lol @ Sel

alt: and I appreciate being checked on daviss...

Selma: Afternoon Ingrid

alt: hello Ingrid

AYWalton: Greestings Ingrid_Doweary!

Khathu: Hello Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey 3rd, Selma, AYWalton, Daviss, Alt and Khathu.

AYWalton: hope you are doing well, today, Ingrid.

alt: well, I guess this Friday we get out chance to 'nitpick' season 2 of WDYTYA LOL

Selma: Yes we do.. LOL "nitpick" is good

Khathu: i feel the inspired to write a blog post in preparation for it

Ingrid_Doweary: I'm good, got "Carmen Jones" playing int he background on cable.

daviss: I did download that freeby of rootsweb but I am using it "only" for a cousins line to see how far I can work it. His grgrgrandmother is listed as the mother of his grandmother on the census. She is actually the step grandmother I believe

3rdthawkins: I notice how hard you all can be on the black celebrities opposed to the white ones, what's up with that? lol lol

Ingrid_Doweary: Yeah, Alt. I hope so. How are you today Alt?

Khathu: who are you referring to?

3rdthawkins: you mean rootsmagic daviss lol (about to call you cavis lol)

AYWalton: Ingrid, do you follow Kimmaytube? She recommended it on her weekend show.

Ingrid_Doweary: Nothing, 3rd. I'm equal opportunity critical.

daviss: right 3rd sorry I meant rootsmagic

3rdthawkins: all of you Khathu last year with Emmit Smith lol

Ingrid_Doweary: This is my first time hearing of Kimmaytube, AY. I wasn't critical of Emmit Smith.

AYWalton: hard on Emmit Smith the person, or on the researchers who jumped to conclusions? He was not the researcher and if there was criticism it was about the people who presented the data to him.

Khathu: i have more experience with AA research so I feel very confident in my critique and analysis of the proposed methods

AYWalton: I don't recal even ONE criticism about him the man, 3rd.

3rdthawkins: I thought emmit smith would have to run for the borader from y'all lol

Khathu: in researching AA and their enslaved ancestors

AYWalton: have no idea why, 3rd. He was at fault for nothing in the progam, and not one person criticized him.

3rdthawkins: well, the Emmit Smith episode AY, I Just say Emmit Smith

Khathu: anyway, any new developments with the research

AYWalton: then he would not have to run. He was the recipient of research, and we as researchers had something to say about the data, not about him the man.

3rdthawkins: ok AY, gosh!

AYWalton: and he, the recipient would probably be quite interested in what a team of experienced researchers would have to say about some conclusions hastily researched on his family.

Ingrid_Doweary: Working on two display layouts for the BHM exhibits at work- University of the District of Colubmia.

alt: perahps this year there will be a little more explaination as to how conclusions maybe infered from the records researched.

AYWalton: quite true, alt. I wonder who the researchers will be.

Ingrid_Doweary: Good point, Alt.

3rdthawkins: if they have gotten enough complaints alt, which they probably should have

AYWalton: did they get many/any?

Khathu: the notion that the research can be done entirely online drives me crazy

Selma: That I agree with Khathu

3rdthawkins: don't know AY, I would think so, I was trying to make a comment, but they weren't receiving any, so not sure

Selma: and that goes for white and black researchers

AYWalton: true, Selma.

Khathu: i get frustrated trying to explain to people this fallacy

AYWalton: I know what you mean, khathu.

Ingrid_Doweary: You know you're right, Khathu. All of the research isn't performed online, but offline also.

alt: drives you crazy Khathu.. what about some of us who started before the online 'explosion' like 20-25 years ago.

Khathu: or people thinking they can start researching with slavery

AYWalton: and they see something on TV and then think it is all there just waiting for them.

Khathu: the vast majority of it is perfomed offline i would estimate that 15-25% can be done online

Ingrid_Doweary: See that's how the research process is undervalued. The process clearly entails identifying sources, leads, guide, references and so forth.

alt: IMHO what is seen on TV is the 'marketing' or 'hawking of genealogy products.

Khathu: and the 25% might be a little high

AYWalton: Well for census research that is tru, but you know we miss a lot by not using microfilm as much.

3rdthawkins: and there's a difference between Searching and REsearching

AYWalton: with Soundex you get a lot of people related whose names were misspelled.

Ingrid_Doweary: I concur, Alt.

Khathu: one still have to cross reference and verify what they find online

Ingrid_Doweary: You said it, 3rd. I'm proud of you!

3rdthawkins: that's were my last name comes from alt :} "occupational"

AYWalton: Ingrid who are the speakers for this Saturday at the Museum?

Ingrid_Doweary: Right On, Khathu! Search, identify, verify and analyze.

3rdthawkins: I'm ordering SSA's, looking into city directories, and ordering deeds to do research on my Hawkins family

Ingrid_Doweary: You know, AYWalton. I haven't heard yet.

AYWalton: ahhh ok. Wish I could make it one of these days.

alt: online and digitization of records have greatly enhanced 'older' resources such as Census and indexes,but ........

Ingrid_Doweary: Happy to hear you are on the right track, 3rd

AYWalton: This week I will be in NY presenting at Rockland College.

Khathu: Oh, maybe I can do a presentation at the AA Civil War Memorial Museum as well

AYWalton: One of these days I hope to give a presentation as well.

Khathu: I will contact Hari Jones to discuss the possibility Mine will be on slave era research

Ingrid_Doweary: I agree, Alt. The digitization enhances the preservation process. PLease contact Hari Khathu.

Selma: You should also send them a link to your USCT blog AY...they should have links to all the AA CW blogs

alt: books, Wills, Estate Papers, etc. can now be found online.. and the Library services of some of the larger facilites are a blessing.

AYWalton: Yes, I have to do that.

Khathu: As part of a libation ceremony honoring our enslaved ancestors, member of the CMC AAHGS were asked to submit the names and information on their enslaved ancestors

AYWalton: And now that Dru has one as well, they need hers as well.

Ingrid_Doweary: Oh Khathu, the presenter who appeared after Seventies turns out to share the same USCT ancestor as frmr Miss America, Vanessa Williams. Her episode airs this friday on WDYTYA.

AYWalton: I posted one yesterday about Lewis Martin, the soldier with the famous photo---the one who was injured.

Khathu: so yesterday afternoon i went through my RootsMagic and was able to i.d. 45 direct ancestors who were enslaved

Selma: Will check it out

AYWalton: I wonder if they know each other.

Khathu: their date of birth ranged from 1787-1860

Ingrid_Doweary: Good for you, Khathu.

AYWalton: that is great info, khathu.

alt: I sure hope this 'flash' of CW150 will last the whole 4 years fo the celebration.

AYWalton: I hope so as well. one of the things that I have pointed out----the CW discussions will go on for 5 years. Of course we are mostly silent about the Civil War.

Ingrid_Doweary: Well Alt. It's up us researchers to make that last for 4 years.

AYWalton: look how few folks are writing about it now.

Khathu: Selma - it looks like the Lorenza Williams from Anderson Co., TX was in the CW as a bugler

Selma: Ah...

AYWalton: and as I mentioned in this week's podcast----so far the only Afr. American blogs about the CW are by women. Not a problem in itself, but still a problem---males did the fighting and women are doing the writing.

alt: most States are doing things in a sequential manner. and this emphasis on USCT's maybe 'deferred' by some until 2013...let su be aware of that.

Ingrid_Doweary: And like AY pointed earlier, we need more the male descendants/researchers/genealogist to come forward and make a variety of presentations.

Khathu: i think he died before 1920

AYWalton: and men are usually aficianados of war type discussions. most CW buffs are white males.

Selma: But contrabands start in 1861 Alt..so we don't have to wait until 2013

AYWalton: which is how they can make up stories about us---since we are not out there. my point exactly.

Selma: Ok so that rules him out Khathu

AYWalton: and I am not waiting anyhow. I don't care when we entered---we have to start talking about it now.

Ingrid_Doweary: We of Africa Descent can not wait until 2013. We need to present as much relevant historical contributions as possible.

AYWalton: there is a contraband blog, in fact.

Khathu: not necessarily

AYWalton: exactly Ingrid.

alt: I know Selma... my point is to take the CW150 history in context... so why are WE not talking contraband in 2011.

Selma: Oh where AY

AYWalton: lastroadtofreedom.com

Selma: Well thats what I wanted to do..when I get off my bu&*

Khathu: i will continue to research him to see if their is a connection

AYWalton: created by Dr. Alesea McCloud.

Ingrid_Doweary: Great question Alt. Hear hear.

AYWalton: Well get off it, Ms Selma!

Khathu: the cousin could have been mistaken

AYWalton: I will help you if you need a nudge. I wrote a piece last week about one of the Ft. Monroe contrabands, who became a soldier.

Khathu: on who he actually saw. in addition, the 1910 listed him as being married twice

Selma: Thanks AY..gonna read this afternoon

alt: and so far I have seen no discussion or mention, except the NYTimes series, on the actions of AA's leading up to the CW.

Ingrid_Doweary: See that is the least we all can do. Put the role of African Americans and the American Civil War in context.

Selma: I hate to say the name Lorenza is a unique name, cause then you go on Ancestry and there are a Million, but it seems to me there might be a connection somehow

3rdthawkins: hello jhonora

AYWalton: and we need to be blogging bit time.

jhonora: Afternoon all!

AYWalton: hey hey hey, it's honoray!

daviss: just the fella I have been looking for.. Hi jhonora!

AYWalton: howdy jhonora!

Selma: Afternoon jhonora

Ingrid_Doweary: Hang in there, Selma. You know your perseverance will pay off. Hey Jhonora!

3rdthawkins: there was someone searching for a female version of the name, Florenza

jhonora: Hey AYW!

alt: hello jhonora

daviss: @ selma I am thinking the same thing re Lorenzo/za

3rdthawkins: I think! oops, someone else wsa researchign an ancestor wiht that name Lorenza, it was hard to find him also, in AR

daviss: jhonora I sent an email to you the other day @ coin C

jhonora: Ohh yess daviss. I never replied, forgive me. Let me pull it up now.

daviss: I am hoping you heard of the name heyyyyyy thats no fair jhonora lol

alt: an interesting twist on the Black Confederate Soldier thing will be the upcoming discussion of Blacks who passed for white and served in the Union Army prior to the formation of the USCT's.

3rdthawkins: hmm, that would be interesting alt that is, if they could present it where it makes sense

Selma: Where is that discussion being held alt

Ingrid_Doweary: That does sound interesting, Alt.

Khathu: have a great day everyone

AYWalton: that could be interesting, alt.

alt: the known cases in SE Ohio Units been discussed and documented by the GAR camp# ?? in Marietta, Ohio and some of it is on Bennie;s site. A collegue of Bennie's... Henry Robert Burke .. is the primary researcher.

3rdthawkins: as they say, never say enver

Ingrid_Doweary: lol

Selma: Jhonora..when I was at the library last week, saw a book entitled A History of the Catholic Church in Virginia by Gerald Fogarty Alt..do they continue to pass for white after the War is over

3rdthawkins: but would they be fighting for the same things the southern white folks fighting for?

jhonora: Yes, Selma, Commonwealth Catholicism, a good book.

Selma: Ok good you know about it..looked like it was 600 pages long

AYWalton: I had better run, folks. have a great day!

alt: No Selma, and they passed for white only to get into the military.. they were black in their community before and after the war... Henry Site for statrers http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/HRB_SEO.HTM

3rdthawkins: ok, that makes sense alt

Selma: Ok..will check it out

jhonora: Yeah, it was dense but includes a about ten pages on blacks

alt: 3rdthawkins, i think you misunderstood the concept...

3rdthawkins: probably

Selma: Folks I have to run...have a great day.

daviss: bye

3rdthawkins: you said they only did to get into the war, so was asking if they were fighting to keep slavery, I understand that wasnt' teh case

daviss: 3rd does your hawkins line go to VA or SC?

3rdthawkins: that's why I don't get into that discussion with you guy,s cause I don't what you all are talking a bout or why

jhonora: daviss, was Geo. Richardson her step-father?

3rdthawkins: North Caroling to South Carolina daviss

freeaainnc: hi all

3rdthawkins: hello free

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Free.

jhonora: Hello free

daviss: I dont know if she really knows for sure jhonora

freeaainnc: can someone do a quick lookup for me in ancestry census records? I don't have access from home

3rdthawkins: I can try and use HQ free

freeaainnc: thanks 3rd! 1850 census, Craven Co. NC page 346B family 1291

daviss: name

freeaainnc: Pettiford what does the age show for Caroline? looked like either 17 or 7 when I originally viewed it about 2 years ago and forgot to check again when my eyes were better oh, and for Willis

alt: view record on ancestry says born ca 1839 she would be 11 y/o?

jhonora: daviss, has she found a marriage for Evaline and Geo. Davis?

freeaainnc: ok, that could be

3rdthawkins: looks like17 free 17

Ingrid_Doweary: What's the 1st name, Free/ ?

freeaainnc: Carolina Pettiford and Willis Pettiford ok 3rd and what about willis?

alt: Wiilis looks to be 2 y/o ?

daviss: all I have is what I sent you jhonora. I tried to find one online as well as a bc but no luck

3rdthawkins: not sure what that last marking

freeaainnc: yeah, same here 3rd, that is what I was unsure about too if it was 11 or 17

3rdthawkins: 3 free, if you look down at Vicy, it is written again with a 0 at the end, looks like 30, so Willis is 3

freeaainnc: ok, thanks 3rd!

3rdthawkins: yw the enumerator writes his 3's differently each time

alt: Oops 3 for Willis

freeaainnc: I put for Carolina "11 or 17" yeah, I hate when they are inconsistent lol

alt: Indexed as 11 & 3

freeaainnc: alt but I don't trust ancestry's index, it is riddled with errors

jhonora: Well, daviss, researching Louisiana outside of New Orleans is a challenge. Births and deaths were not kept until 1914. The only records are marriages which almost never give parents. Brenham does not seem to be a common name in Catahoula. I can check to see if there is Catahoula courthouse records on microfilm here in N.O.

3rdthawkins: it is a pet peeve

alt: so that why you cross check them free

freeaainnc: i know alt LOL

daviss: did you get Brenham off of that jhonora

freeaainnc: I'll see if I can find time at lunch tomorrow and look at the actual microfilm, maybe that will help

Ingrid_Doweary: Have you cross-checked for Carolina on the 1840 or 1860 censuses, Free? There you go, Free. Good thinking.

3rdthawkins: names not gonna show on 1840 Ingrid for those in the house other than Head of House

alt: jhonora. what can you tell me about the Freedman's Aid Society In NO ca 1915-1920? WAs it Gov't operated? fed/state?

daviss: does that brenime look like it could be a surname jhonora

freeaainnc: Ingrid, I'm sure I have at one point, but I did all the census stuff on the Pettifords about 2 years ago and don't remember for sure

jhonora: There may be some hope. I just noticed she's the only colored person on the page. Did you see "master" written next to the folks above them in '80?

freeaainnc: but that doesn't always help either because age is not always consitent from census to census

Ingrid_Doweary: Okay, Free. Just putting it out there.

freeaainnc: yep, I know and appreciate the reminder

daviss: what does that mean jhonora

Ingrid_Doweary: I concur/

3rdthawkins: I think it's good to check free, you never know, it kind of looks odd having 17 year old and then the next oldest is 3, of course we don't know relationships (you may)), 11 and 3 may be better

jhonora: Not sure just yet, daviss, but it may be something to go off.

freeaainnc: right 3rd, I don't know the relationships yet. she could be a sister, a cousin, an orphan who was bound to them, an apprentice bound to them, etc. even if she were 11 the age wouldn't fit as a daughter

Ingrid_Doweary: Interesting possibilities, Free.

freeaainnc: so I need to look through the original records from Craven Co. for this family to figure out who she is

alt: especially a 17 y/o with a 25 y/o father .. looks the mother is 29 y/o so the 25 y/o male may not be the father, huh?

3rdthawkins: wow, missed that alt

freeaainnc: definitely Ingrid right alt, could be step father or again not a child of either of them but some other relation

alt: another misconceptual conclusion on relationships for census records prior to 1880.

freeaainnc: a lot of the 1850 census pages I copied in my note book are tearing so I'm copying them again and noticed that about Carolina and Willis with their ages alt yes and I wish they did the relationship thing for all census records lol

alt: but you don't throw out all conclusions based on non-stated facts.

freeaainnc: right sorry, copying while we talk lol

Ingrid_Doweary: What are you working, Jhonora?

jhonora: In general, Ingrid, or at the moment?

3rdthawkins: wish there was some kind of paper trail for those who migrated from the south to the north (like SC to NY) also VA to NY

Ingrid_Doweary: historical/genealogy wise, Jhonora

alt: there is 3rdthawkins, you just have to find it...

freeaainnc: yeah

3rdthawkins: wow, thanks alt lol

alt: occuaption, education, military, residence, newspapers .. it all ain't in vital records.

freeaainnc: but there usually is, the trick is to figure out their route in order to find it

jhonora: I'm working on Medard H. Nelson, a private educator here in N.O. from 1870s-1933. Also Mother Theodore Williams, from Baton Rouge and foundress of Franciscan Handmaids, and a history of the Knights of Peter Claver, and my Compton family.

3rdthawkins: welll, I was looking more for like migration papers something like that, documents, it took place in the 1920s, between 1920 and 1930, city directories are no good for Queens

alt: no I'm serious 3rdthawkins, broaden your search parameters and perhaps community searches.

3rdthawkins: right free I don't think those are gonna help me alt in this situation vital records good as in marriage license if I could find where and/or where they married

jhonora: daviss, one thing, are the folks you know white?

Ingrid_Doweary: Thanks Jhonora. Sounds great.

freeaainnc: oh but they do 3rd because that is what helps u figure out their route from point a to point b

daviss: I am thinking they are black or mabe mixed jhonora

freeaainnc: and in a 10 year span from census to census, maybe they stopped somewhere and bought land, signed a petition (that is how I found the route for one of my own ancestors), etc.

3rdthawkins: I'm not interested in the route, just to know when they came to NY< I'm trying to find and track/trace my great grandmother's parents so I can find them in census it is very hard

freeaainnc: but 3rd, understanding the route they took and finding their records along the way helps you determine when they actually came to NY plus it helps give you a fuller picture of your ancestors

Ingrid_Doweary: Sometimes 3rd, the leads you're not interested in can lead you there.

freeaainnc: who they were, issues they dealt with personally, what they did, etc. right, exactly Ingrid

3rdthawkins: so, I need someone familiar with New York, cause I don't know what is there and what isn't, seem like very limited resources

Ingrid_Doweary: Have you contacted Seventies and or Amos, 3rd?

3rdthawkins: I plan to order BC for my grandmother and marriage license for her father's second marriage. I am trying to find marriage date for my grandmother's parents

freeaainnc: it always seems that way until you actually become familiar with them yourself lol

3rdthawkins: yes Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: and or Spivey?

3rdthawkins: lol probably so free.........yep Ingrid her too

freeaainnc: yes 3rd, i would start with the vitals and work back from death to birth records they left in their final place of residence may give clues to their previous place, and the records there may give clues to the next place, etc.

daviss: gotta run folks

Ingrid_Doweary: good you plan to order those aforementioned records. good luck, 3rd.

freeaainnc: 3rd have you hired a professional researcher? you may need to if you are unfamiliar with records in NY

3rdthawkins: I am studying the DC for my great grandparents and teh information they gave, also the 1930 census they appear on, need to get that marr. license for my gr gf's second marri. nope Free, I may also other census records that my graeat grandfather's siblings appear on in Queens

freeaainnc: yeah, you may need to invest in it, but first get all the vitals you can

3rdthawkins: I am more focused on Virginia migration to New York, but would research the ones from SC also

alt: 3rdthawkins, when you get to a period prior SSA records, do you have replacement resources for that type of information?

freeaainnc: and when/if you do hire someone be sure to tell them all the documentation you have, even if it seems nonconsequential because they may waste time trying to find something you already have b/c it is of consequence to them

3rdthawkins: hmm, alt, not really

freeaainnc: (I worked as a paid researcher for about 5 years before my current job so I'm speaking from experience)

3rdthawkins: ok, will do free

alt: truthfully 3rdthawkins, your research is too 'recent' for areas of expereince.

3rdthawkins: forgive me alt

jhonora: What time period 3rdthawkins?

freeaainnc: I would get so frustrated spending an hour getting a particular document only to be told "oh, I already have that!"

3rdthawkins: between 1920 and 1930 jhonora

jhonora: What time period 3rd?

3rdthawkins: lol free

jhonora: Are you familiar with Savanah to NYC move?

3rdthawkins: I would be considerate to inform them free no jhonora

alt: you're forgiven and that was a comment meant in good taste not as jab, but to reflect the areas of research that is different for us.

freeaainnc: yep b/c even if u don't, you are still responsible to pay them even if they waste time looking for something you already have lol

3rdthawkins: though one of my great granduncles married a woman who was from Georgia, her and her brother both moved to NY, that's why I am researching, wondering if they came with their "wives" or if they happened to meet them in NY. ok alt, thanks my great grandfather came to NY from SC and married a woman from VA right alt, I understand, I thought you all would be familiar sense you have at some point researched that era/time period but I guess different strokes for different folks

freeaainnc: well, I've done research during that time period, but different circumstances

3rdthawkins: right free

alt: Well 3rdthawkins, fro me from 1910 forward is contemporary for my parents and I have availability to all of those records here in the home area.

freeaainnc: my own research, my mom's side of the family lived in IL since 1820ish (before it was a state) and my dad's side always lived in NC since about 1770ish and they all lived around the same area so I didn't have to worry about migration and where they met etc like you are working with

3rdthawkins: I see free wish my great grandfather had of stayed in SC

freeaainnc: and with my research on free African American in antebellum NC, it's antebellum so the time frame is different than what you are working with. I think this is all an example of what alt meant lol 3rd! everyone wishes something was different to make it easier to trace

3rdthawkins: you all just started waay before I did, so not concerned about what I am doing

alt: I run into your situation in helping other folks and I find the more I know of the life styles, occupations, education. religion, community the more I can uncover about them not just from their records but the records of their comtemporaries.

3rdthawkins: I need to find someone "my age"

freeaainnc: what is your age 3rd?

Ingrid_Doweary: Just deal with what you have control of, 3rd. Helps keep you sane.

jhonora: Very true alt.

freeaainnc: totally agree alt all of that helps to answer what 3rd is looking for wb jhonora

Ingrid_Doweary: wb Jhonora.

3rdthawkins: well, as far as when my ancestors were born opposed to/versus when you all's ancestors were born and when you all started vs. when I started, no real literal age

freeaainnc: 3rd and it's not that we're not concerned about what you are doing 3rd I'm 34. I started when I was 11

Ingrid_Doweary: True, Free.

3rdthawkins: see, that's what I mean

freeaainnc: I started out WRONG as can be b/c I didn't know anyone who could help

seraph1959: hello

freeaainnc: hi seraph

3rdthawkins: though you are only 3 years older than me.............hello seraph

alt: it isn't a 'lack of interest' problem.. seems more ancestral & generational in the research approach. I"m impressed with what you have accomplished

3rdthawkins: jhonora is about 10 years younger, but started same time you did

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Seraph1959

freeaainnc: 3rd it wasn't until I was about 16 and on the internet that I met folks in chats who helped me and gave me advice that I listened to and that is the only reason I am where I am with my research

seraph1959: Got a call from Jen that vkn is in Feb. Essence , that is so cool .

freeaainnc: wow seraph! cool, I'll have to check it out

Ingrid_Doweary: A 2nd cousin who is about maybe 6 yrs younger than me, inspired me with her Family Reunion Exhibit of a census record.

alt: hello seraph1959 .. Happy New Year!!!!!! LOL

seraph1959: Happy New Year geeze has it been that long?

Ingrid_Doweary: Yes seraph1959! Isn't it wonderful. and Happy New Year to you also.

freeaainnc: 3rd I understand where u are coming from, I was in your shoes before as all of us were at one point

jhonora: free, you started at 11. You beat me by two years.

seraph1959: Everyone plugging along in their research ?

freeaainnc: lol jhonora! yep! on AOL I was always the youngest genealogist and started the earliest and took a lot of pride in that until I turned about 25 and then all the sudden I was no longer the youngest LOL

alt: 3rd, we are not here to abuse you. maybe slap you around occasionally, but not to abuse you LOL lOL

freeaainnc: jhonora I had a hard time giving that title up lol

3rdthawkins: :o ok alt

jhonora: Well your topic is so significant you'll be in demand for a good while.

freeaainnc: jhonora - me? why thank you I'm glad I started out so young b/c it gave me a chance to spend over 20 years on my own family and now I have time to work on my current projects lol 3rd!!

seraph1959: Maybe to give you a hard time but not to abuse 3rd :-)

3rdthawkins: ok, thx

freeaainnc: 3rd we may be hard on you, but that is b/c we are coming from a place of experience and don't want you to make mistakes we may have made ourselves hi keli1

3rdthawkins: hello keli1

keli1: good afternoon everyone!

alt: hello keli1.. how goes it?

keli1: I am glad to see you are still here. All is well here@Alt

freeaainnc: brb, need some lunch, I'm hungry! wow, it's almost 2 here!

Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Keli1!

alt: time for me to split... nap time LOL later's y'all

Ingrid_Doweary: Laters Alt.

3rdthawkins: later alt

keli1: hi Ingrid, how are you

seraph1959: hi Keli1

Ingrid_Doweary: I'm good thanks for asking. How are you, Keli1?

keli1: doing okay, just returned, went to the grocery, it is nice outside here in Central VA

seraph1959: good to hear you are mot snowed in Keli

Ingrid_Doweary: You just got rain and now snow, Keli!? Keli!=Keli1

freeaainnc: 3rd, I just had a thought... have you checked with the state library of NY? if they have a genealogy dept., you should be able to write into them and ask questions and they may be able to help you I'm a genealogy reference librarian at the state library of NC and that is exactly what my job is - to respond to questions our library receives for genealogy research assistance I look in our books at the library here for them and also give advice on their next step we have guidelines for how to ask questions at our library, so be sure to check their website to see if there are any there

seraph1959: Take care , see you all around.

freeaainnc: bye seraph

Ingrid_Doweary: Bye seraph1959

keli1: we don't have anything but a bit of snow on the ground, it is all melting

3rdthawkins: you know what free, I called them, and all he did was send me a list for professional genealogist to hire

freeaainnc: really?? that's too bad

Ingrid_Doweary: Okay. A few feet melting here in DC/

3rdthawkins: they don't help with genealogy unless you pay

keli1: I forget you are in DC

freeaainnc: oy! I hate that but kinda understand

jhonora: I'm heading out y'all. Take care and happy hunting

Ingrid_Doweary: Cya Jhonora.

freeaainnc: what about a public library in the county where your ancestors resided?

3rdthawkins: that's why it's frustrating free, it seems all the avenues in NY been a bust, and I just about exhausted them that's the one I'm talking about free

freeaainnc: some of them have genealogy reference librarians

keli1: what are you looking for? if I may ask

freeaainnc: oh! well I meant before the State Library, not a local public library

Ingrid_Doweary: Things aren't always what them, 3rd. Step away for a breather and try back.

3rdthawkins: I even chatted with one online and they gave me a number to call, I called to get a look up in the city directory, as I said, he sent a letter with a list of genealogist

freeaainnc: but 3rd, the public libraries and the state library are 2 different things

3rdthawkins: maybe I'll check the state Lib free

freeaainnc: yes, check the state library state libraries are usually more government centered (they are there for the politicians in the state legislature usually), but if they have a genealogy dept., they should be able to help, and write in or email, don't just call

3rdthawkins: ok

freeaainnc: a lot of times if you just call, they can't do much for you, but if you write, they may have a specific genealogy reference librarian like me who responds to all the email and letters sent in

keli1: I have great luck with historical societies

freeaainnc: but of course not all of them are as good as me hehe\

3rdthawkins: I cant get one of them to respond keli1

keli1: ingrid do you make it to the archives? 3rd, are you a member?

3rdthawkins: nope

freeaainnc: 3rd, have patience with genealogy and historical societies as they are often volunteer staffed only

keli1: what county are you looking for in NY

3rdthawkins: patience is one thing, volunteer or not, when somebody writes a letter, Respond to it, one way or another Queens keli1

keli1: I am sure you already used the online resources right?

Ingrid_Doweary: I'm volunteering as a genealogy aide when my day job work schedule permits, Keli1.

3rdthawkins: what online resources?

freeaainnc: well, true 3rd, but it took me almost 5 or 6 months to get a response to my question

3rdthawkins: oh, ok free, it's been almost or close to that, so, ok

freeaainnc: ancestry, HQ, footnote, RAOGK, rootsweb for starters

keli1: familysearch.org

3rdthawkins: rootsweb for NY?

freeaainnc: USGenweb I meant

keli1: there are two sites on familysearch, are you close to a family history center?

freeaainnc: but rootsweb has the mailing lists and I'm sure there are tons for NY

3rdthawkins: oh, ok, you know, I have to try free I have to try that for NY free

freeaainnc: have you tried familysearch or RAOGK?

keli1: give me the surname and year and I will check familysearch right quick

3rdthawkins: Ancestry and Familysearch doesn't have too much for NY in the time period I am searching, footnote I do not have, RAOGK I may try

keli1: I have it up worldvitalrecords is another one I use

freeaainnc: 3rd - do you know what RAOGK is/does?

3rdthawkins: well keli1, it's not so much the surname, since I am researching betwaeen 1920 and 1930 and trying to track down my great grandmother and her parents so I can find them in 1920 yeah, I used them once before free

freeaainnc: ok 3rd, great! well maybe you can use it again to find someone to check the city directory you were looking for before

keli1: okay give me the names and area and let me check, also your email, in case I find something, you are trying to locate them via 1930

3rdthawkins: I need marriage record/license, city directory, something like that to know when they came to NY and where they were living before 1930 keli1

keli1: sometimes another set of eyes will see something you haven't

freeaainnc: right, exactly I need to go folks, got a lot of stuff I need to do around the apt.

keli1: okay, we are looking prior to 1930, are they in Queens in 1930?

freeaainnc: bye folks

keli1: byeeee free!

Ingrid_Doweary: Bye Free

3rdthawkins: iot's the same from a couple weeks ago keli1, the ones from Virginia, my great grandmother Mada Ruth Jefferson. I think the Mada may stand for something like Madaline, she was born about 1910 in Virginia, as was her parents. Her father's name was James Jefferson and mothers' name Anna Roxianna, I believe first and middle name, maiden name not known

keli1: do you know where in VA?

3rdthawkins: keli1, my great grandmother was living in Queens with her husband (my great grandfather) Dennis Hawkins, name transcribed on Ancestry as Harokins..............no don't know where in VA information comes from 1930 census and my great grandmother's death certificate I believe she was white

keli1: are they still alive? Mada Ruth?

3rdthawkins: no, I have her death certificate, she died in 1930s also have my great grandfather's death certificate, he died in the 1940s

keli1: all of them born in VA to your knowledge

3rdthawkins: yep my great grandfather was from South Carolina

keli1: which could mean different things when dealing with VA is dennis your ggrandfather

3rdthawkins: I don't know if Ruth's parents came with her to NY or stayed in VA yes keli1

keli1: do you have an approx age or birth year

3rdthawkins: I have found him in census keli1 in Berkeley County propr to 1930 living w ith his parents, he was born abt 1903 or 1905, but I have him

keli1: berkeley county west VA?

3rdthawkins: no, South Carolina forgot there's was anotehr one hehe

keli1: you are after Mada Ruth Jefferson, right how old was Mada when she died and what if any type of work did she do or her husband

3rdthawkins: yes, and her parents.........she was abt 25 and he was about 38. He wa a chauffer (sp) at the time of his death, she was a housewife at the time of her death

keli1: trying to get a range for her birth year, 1910, right?

3rdthawkins: in 1930 he was an auto mechanic......yes, 1910 1910-1936 for her, abt 1903-1943 for him

keli1: wait she was born in 1910 and died in 1930s?

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: what was mada husband's name, if she married

3rdthawkins: Dennis Hawkins

keli1: she was a youngin', did they have children

3rdthawkins: yeah, 4

keli1: wow...you tracked them all?

Ingrid_Doweary: Isn't that something/

3rdthawkins: my grandmother waas born in 1930, about 3 months after the census enumeration...........well, I had got in contact with my grandmother's niece, we are both looking for more info on Mada Jefferson her parents, grandparents, greats, etc.

keli1: james jefferson is common in VA

3rdthawkins: siblings

keli1: I do see a James Jefferson b. 1893, living in Roanoke, with wife Anna Jefferson

3rdthawkins: what year? any children?

keli1: they are Negro 1930 census, were they still alive?

3rdthawkins: oh, ok, I believe my great grandmother was white/rish

keli1: Dorothy, James Jr. and Allen

3rdthawkins: not sure about my great grandmother's parents, have not located them in 1930

keli1: head of household is Negro, do those children ring a bell

3rdthawkins: don't know if they were living in VA or NY in 1930 no, they don't

keli1: what are Anna and James's children's names

3rdthawkins: I just know Ruth

keli1: okay, Ruth is one child, good

3rdthawkins: the only info I have on my grandmother's mother is my grandmother's SSA, the 1930 census, and her mother's DC

keli1: that would be Ruth Hawkins right?

3rdthawkins: yes, keli1, last week I was searching, and I found a Madaline Ruth Jefferies in Texas, so that helped me determine that Mada could be a shorten form of Madaline/Madline, etc., my grandmother just wrote Mada on her SSA, also it is written that wy on my grandmother's DC

keli1: I was thinking of Mary, Madaline, Mattie..etc. Mary Ann

Ingrid_Doweary: It's my time to signoff. Happy hunting folks.

3rdthawkins: ok Ingrid

Ingrid_Doweary: Bye

keli1: what's your email?

3rdthawkins: hawk_man72000@hotmail.com

keli1: what is your first name

3rdthawkins: Thomas

keli1: hi Thomas, I am Shelley

3rdthawkins: nice to meet you

keli1: lol, I live in Virginia, lol

3rdthawkins: :} and I live in Missouri

keli1: where did Mada and Dennis get married

3rdthawkins: don't know, not sure, but I am thinking New York around 1929 their ages at first marriage in the 1930 census was the same as their stated age

keli1: is dennis's parents or others in his family Levy and Jessie? b. 1904 in Berkeley

3rdthawkins: yes, those are his parents yes, that is him

keli1: that is in 1920

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: so he was not married in 1920

3rdthawkins: no

keli1: so he and mada were only together about 10 yrs, hmmmm

3rdthawkins: not sure ten, may be shorter than that

keli1: and had 4 kids

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: so dennis was still in SC in 1910

3rdthawkins: yep

keli1: have you checked for Mada and Dennis getting married in SC, wonder where they met, if she was born in VA, he is SC and they moved to NY

3rdthawkins: no, I can check though it's hard in Berkeley County, I couldn't get a marriage rec for my other grandparents in SC, and I think/thought they married in Berkeley Co. also could not get a marri rec for Dennis' parents, so it is tough in Berkeley Co.

keli1: he is still with parents in 1920 in SC, when and what made him leave for NY to meet

3rdthawkins: well, as what I have seen on the 1930 census for Queens Co. NY, a lot of folks moved from the south to NY, and there are a tons from South Carolina, including some of Dennis' siblings, and those siblings' spouses are from different states from the south I'm thinking a occupational better living, better opportunities this is between 1920 and 1930

keli1: still thinking of how they met...it is unusal for the woman to migrate, but not a male are in NY

3rdthawkins: I know, you're right, wondering if she came with her parents if she was from VA

keli1: right, just a thought, the marriage would be key, if they married in SC, I can see them leaving, but again where did they meet in SC...I just love this, I am working on a presentation on migrations, so it is interesting

3rdthawkins: on Dennis' death certificate (he died 1943) it said he was in the state for 15 years, which would put his arrival at 1928. He would have married Ruth in abt 1929 or early 1930, like Jan, and they were enumerated April 1930 and my grandmother was born that Aug (1930) well great, I was looking for someone who was working or as worked on migration as-has the 1928 is interesting, maybe it is a coincidence, but on his brother's obit (2003/'04), it said the Hawkins sibings went to NY in 1928

keli1: did you check for marriage records in SC for them

3rdthawkins: not yet, I will call the probate court, that's all I can do for now, they have no records online or anywhere else it is hard trying to track them down ,becaue they could have married in any adjacent county in SC

keli1: girls like to marry by their momma's, wondering if the Jefferson's lived in or near NY

3rdthawkins: but I am planning on ordering my grandmother's birth certificate, so hoping that will shed some light on her mother's birth place