3rdthawkins: hey di
di: hi 3rd--brb '
3rdthawkins: ok hello alt
alt: hello 3rdthawkins & di .. how are ya?
3rdthawkins: doing good alt she is away
alt: I see she left a BRB
alt: been busy surfing & browsing today... having great luck with WW I Draft records & some google searches.
3rdthawkins: that's good
alt: WW I draft records creat some problems with birth dates tho'.
3rdthawkins: all my researching as to do with outside of the home, not on the internet.
Selma: Good afternoon 3rd, alt, di and march1801
alt: Hello march1801 & Selma
march1801: hello everyone
3rdthawkins: yes, they do alt, big time............hello march1801 and Selma places I search you have to send for the information, not gonna get it online.
alt: when you compare the birth dtaes from WW I draft registrations vs DC's & SS records there are mnay, many differences
3rdthawkins: yep which is annoying
di: good afternoon alt, march1801, Selma !
march1801: hi di
alt: makes me want to go with the WW I draft regis records as they are closer to the actual birth date and are those given by the registrnt.
3rdthawkins: yes, I think that is the safe thing to do alt
Selma: There is the possibility that some males would put different BD in order to serve...
alt: that's a possibilty Selma
3rdthawkins: I agree Selma, I think that is what happened with my great great grandfather, I think he made himself 3 years younger to serve
AYWalton: Good afternoon, all.
alt: Hello AYWalton & Daviss
AYWalton: hi 3rd
daviss: hello everyone!
3rdthawkins: ironically, my other grgr gf made himself 3 years older, maybe not to serve, but I think that is his real BD
Selma: Good afternoon AY and daviss
march1801: good day aywalton and daviss
AYWalton: greetings alt, daviss, di march1801, Ms. Selma!
3rdthawkins: hello AYwalton and Daviss
daviss: how's everyone?
di: hello daviss
daviss: long time march1801! how have you been?
3rdthawkins: doing good daviss
Selma: In WWI time frame...folks didn't or did they have to provide additional information to verify
AYWalton: doing well, daviss, and you?
alt: I guess those differing dates is a good reason for citing the sources when there are variances.
march1801: busy busy, but glad to have some time to get back with u all
3rdthawkins: right alt, I wouldn't know what additional information would be provided, especially for an AA Selma
alt: don't know about 'verify' Selma, but there is additonal data that is very informative.
Selma: Verify is not exactlywhat I meant...now you have to show additional ID, like drivers license, birth certificate..something else..
3rdthawkins: for WWI?
Selma: Yes, I am specifically speaking of the WWI era
3rdthawkins: that's is interesting Selma, I think on the card it does say something like The information is true best to my knowledge or something like that so I think they may have to show some data to prove they are of age to serve or that they are past the age of serving
alt: ex. found the WW I Draft Regis for Ennis Warrick, a relative who is the gfather of a former schoolmate of AYWalton.. he was working for the Freedman's Aid Society in New Orleans when he registered in 1918... A 1908 graduate of Wilberforce Univ.
3rdthawkins: in census my materal grgr gf Ed Hughes' age was always around being born 1877 +1 and -12, and 3..........but on his Draft Card he is born in 1872 May 10, and also that is on his Death Certificate oops, that should be, -1, -2, and -3
AYWalton: that is interesting, alt.
3rdthawkins: the last DOB would make sense if grgr gm was 10 years younger than him as I was told she always stated to people
AYWalton: Selma, I just got a call from Philadelphia...........and guess what....rescheduled for February.
alt: speaking of BC's .. in Ohio you can now get a BC for anyone born in Ohio from any County Health Dept. .. you don't have to go to the county of Birth or the state health Dept... change was effective 1 Jan 2011
Selma: LOL...cause the weather is messy
3rdthawkins: wow, awesome alt
AYWalton: yes it is.
alt: saves a lot of travel time & expense...
di: hi AYWalton... once again u r faster than email!
AYWalton: howdy di! you are in the Philly area right?
AYWalton: how is the weather?
di: freezing rain snowed last night, turned to rain this morning, ice
AYWalton: well it is a good thing that the meeting was cancelled, then. I am rescheduled for February.
daviss: I see they arrested Baby Doc
Selma: This is turning out to be a messy winter for the East Coast
AYWalton: that is true.
di: well i may miss you. my evening schedule is tuesdays 2-8
AYWalton: I see.
di: i will do my best,
alt: The Tucker family that Derek Nichols writes about from VA... they are in a 'juicy' lawsuit against the Will of John Randolph of Roanoke filed in 1833... where they tried to have his will voided for 'insanity"...
Selma: Nothing like when folks take other folks to court
alt: http://tinyurl.com/68mad5x read pages 19-39 ... incredible.
AYWalton: well di I am rescheduled for Feb 8th.
alt: in effect the are saying he is crazy for lmost 400 slaves and they are fighting to gain them for themselves freeing almost 400 slaves
di: i will see if i can get my assistant to close up....i will try...
Selma: Big court case with the Hairston family..in Weinke book. The family won
alt: over inheritance Selma?
Selma: Yes, he took slaves including to another state, GA I think He had a relationship with a slave woman, had a daughter. When he died left it all to her. His heirs sued and bought daughter and other slaves back to VA He had not freed them, including his daughter, I don't know why he would think his family would
daviss: where did he leave from Selma, What state?
3rdthawkins: probably wasn't thinking at all about that, just that he loved her and his children
Selma: Either VA or NC Nice thought 3rd... but it don't work like that
3rdthawkins: hadn't freed them? hmmm.........
daviss: sing Roberta Flack
Selma: Hairstons were in both VA and NC
alt: Randolph left the Tuckers land, equipment, some slaves from his father estate that went to their mother,, they weren't staisfied and also wanted his 400 slaves that he freed and also the money he provided from them to buy 3,200 acre of land in Ohio.
3rdthawkins: sorry, the last part ok, but wasn't thinking about the first part, "hadn't freed them" I agree Selma, not sure why he wouldn't think his family would I could see if that were free, but they weren't that-they
Selma: Slaves accounted for much of the wealth in the south..thats why slave owners were moaning and groaning when they lost the War
3rdthawkins: I get that part Selma if he sent them north, it would have been different.....maybe? or took them north
alt: for sure Selma, when you look at 1850 & 1860 Census records you will see proprty worth x,xxx dollars and personal estate (slaves) worth xxx,xxx dollars.
Selma: and for those with the argument that most folks didn't own slaves, most of my friends don't have a Mercedez Benz, but that don't mean they don't want one
Selma: and I don't have one... LOL
3rdthawkins: lol lol I mean, anybody wants someone who's gonna do most or all of the manual labor I'm sure the slaves wanted slaves, gosh!
alt: when you look at the dollars involved it is another explanation for NO black confedrate soldiers... slave owners weren't goning to give up the dollars invested in their slaves and the confederacy couldn't pay them enough if they were to send their slaves to fight for the confederacy.
Selma: and their is a "power" that comes with writing a will and leaving "Dicey and all her future Issue for all time"..it is a chilling thing to read
AYWalton: Selma here is a good overview for our mapping class: maap.columbia.edu/welcom.html
Selma: Oh ok..AY Got Object not found message AY
daviss: most slaveowners in Harrison County texas averaged 4800 dollars in wealth average 18 yrs and older
3rdthawkins: so what about interracial relationships, my gf's cousin and I was talking about that the other day, because of all of the white or light skin in the family, those white men loved black women, or what? What is that about, where does that come in in other words, how do we look at that and how do we take it at that time
Selma: What do you think 3rd..you want a Harlequin Romance...
alt: and white women loved black men too 3rdthawkins .. then & now.
3rdthawkins: what is Harlequin?
Selma: By and large Black women were available ..that is not to say there were not caring relationships, but it was not the norm
3rdthawkins: I'm just asking Selma and alt, how do we look at that, was there a real love or what?? do we except it as two people who loved each other, or just a white man "taking advantage" in a way a black woman
alt: possibly, but I would say not 'as a rule" on the love thing.
3rdthawkins: accept right alt, that's my thing, because of that time they were living maybe a like, maybe an infactuation (sp)?
daviss: and what time are you speaking of 3rd
3rdthawkins: well specifically immediately after slavery, 1865 to at least 1880, perhaps 1900 at the most
alt: when you see a white man having several children over a period of time by the same black woman you might lean in that direction.
3rdthawkins: ok alt, you're going in my direction, as my grgrgr gf Jame Payson, a white man, had two children by my grgrgr gf Ella Gibbes, a former slave (so I suspect she was) oops, grgrgr gm Ella Gibbes it's not love, what is it, how do we take that/those relationship(s)?
daviss: if its not love then it may be still wanting to control
alt: convience/proximity many reasons and not always LOVE. and control
Selma: Up into my own lifetime black women were not considered and I am not sure who to quite describe it, but not on the same "plane" as white women
daviss: hello vkn
Selma: That was the point of "I am black and I am proud"
alt: hello vkn ,, how you be?
vkn: howdy to each and everyone
march1801: hi vkn
Selma: Afternoon vkn
AYWalton: Greetings, VKN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vkn: I be a worker bee alt lol
3rdthawkins: so as alt said, more of a convience. My gf's cousin's grandfather was white, and he signed an affidavit stating he was at least 1/16th black so he could marry a black woman, now that has to be love, right? and he did not leave the family behind to fend for himself, he basically took on all that comes with being black or being with/around black folks
AYWalton: LOL, I can imagine!! Phone still ringing, from the Essence article?
vkn: Heyyyyyy AYW missed ya for a day or three
3rdthawkins: hello vkn himself=themselves
daviss: In Texas, after the war they still did not believe slavery was nil and went about the business of doing the same thing to women (black)
vkn: 3rd daviss march Selma
alt: right Selma... I think Cicely Tyson was the first woman with any color to be really accepted as 'pretty' by the media.... Maybe Diannah Carroll also.
vkn: AYW most callers are none computer and also looking for family reunion help
Selma: Or like Lena Horne said they had to smean make-up on Ava gardner for a role she wanted to play..what was that role smear
daviss: 3rd did Payson tell a fib about his percentage
3rdthawkins: I do see it today Selma, light skinned women/people seem to be preferred more and over darker skinned woman...............he did not marry her daviss as far as I know or believe,
Selma: So this Payson is identifed as white on the census?
alt: I remember those days Selma, AVA Gardner and a couple of others got the roles that were meant for Lena Horne & Dorothy Dandridege.
vkn: Question: How does the sickle csll trait show in your research?
daviss: no I was asking if he fibed about his color percentage
3rdthawkins: it is believed he was Selma, my grgr grandmother was light skin......don't know daviss I can't find him in census Selma
Selma: But you have a copy of an affiadavit?
alt: we have a couple of known carrier's vkn, but no one with the disease itself.
3rdthawkins: oh no, not my grgrgr gf Selma, my grandfather's cousin, her mother's father. No relation to the family
Selma: Well lets put it this way..1/16 in VA would have gotten him in the back of the bus with the other fokls
vkn: I see. Something we might present at some conference suggestion
3rdthawkins: in 1900 Selma, when living with his white grandma, he was white, after that, any other record, he was black/colored/negro/mulatto
alt: yep, the 1/16 fraction was part of the 'one drop rule'.
3rdthawkins: but in 1900, next door to him and his grandma, there was a husband and wife, one was listed as white, the other black
Selma: and his grandma is always listed as White?
vkn: alt I am suggesting that at these conferences we may want to encourage presentation who go out of the "start with yourself and work backwards" box
3rdthawkins: that's the only census I seen her in Selma, but I would suppose so,
Selma: Not a good idea to just "suppose" in research
3rdthawkins: I don't research that family Selma, it is not mine
alt: yes vkn.. along with get a book on genealogy .. and read it LOL lOL
Selma: I don't understand what you mean vkn
vkn: lol Well Selma to introduce new family history ideas
Selma: Oh yes..Ok reread
alt: and put the 'stuff' o paper, or in a computer,,, there are ready made forms for recordkeeping, you don't have to design your own .. like the one lady did and posted her chart on Afrigeneas that we all had a hard time deciphering.
3rdthawkins: that's great vkn, I understand from learning about my own family history of blindness on my family side, never knew who all had it, but a few aunts and uncles along with my dad, and I am legally blind also on my Family side-meaning On My Father's Side but I understand sickle cell is common in AA families
vkn: I am hearing today that majority of current sicklers are rooted in GA
Selma: For me vkn..it is important to understand time, place and space...when the folks lived, where, and space - father, mother, child, job, enslaved, free..those 3 things are all inter related and depending on time frame and place all those things come together
daviss: vkn do you remember years ago when there was a rash of postings regarding a dot on the ear?
alt: you have a problem vkn.. deciding which callers may be 'for real' from those who are into genealogy being the 'in' thing.
vkn: That was a huge discussion daviss
Selma: Oh interesting on the GA location vkn
vkn: not so far alt
3rdthawkins: should that matter alt? people should be into genealogy for whatever reason they want, right? I mean it's like like religion or anything not like I think I understand what you are saying though alt
alt: for me it is a problem 3rdthawkins, perhaps that's becasue I'm a genealogy snob/purist.
AYWalton: going to run, folks. Have a great day!
march1801: gotta go too. goodbye
daviss: take care march
Selma: I have to run too folks..have a great day.
3rdthawkins: just like this alt, is everyone leaving because they really have somewhere to go, or are they just leaving because others are lol
alt: maybe they don't like the 'tone' of the discussion LOL
daviss: as my mother used to say, there is more to life than just bbque
3rdthawkins: where she come up with that, I LOVE! BBque..........naw jk daviss lol
alt: and that's the truth daviss, momma hit it dead on the head .
daviss: sure did alt lol and on that note lol take care yall
3rdthawkins: later daviss man, can't type later right
alt: 3rdthawkins, have you seen the site My African Roots that was posted on AfriGeneas?
3rdthawkins: no, I havent'
alt: check it out... and then tell me if that is a genealogy site, or a 'johnny come lately' marketing site trying to get in on the genealogy bug.
alt: you can surmise my feeling about the site.. and it is these types of 'genealogists' tha I question.
vkn: lol alt
3rdthawkins: ok, will check it out
alt: really vkn,,, they're like telephone scammers and gte rich quick schemers (sp) trying to get in on a good thing.
vkn: I do agree
alt: Ihave some IT skills, so I'll design a site/blog/page and make me some money. that seems to be the philosophy
vkn: I also agree with your question alt on marketing or genealogy
3rdthawkins: right alt, I see what you are saying on that front, I mean those pepole are everyone everywhere
alt: well let me take my grouchy self outa here... VKn, how's the RA thing going?
vkn: it be going lol
3rdthawkins: ok alt,t I will go to, see ya vkn
vkn: See you gents 2nite
alt: best wishes with the treatment vkn.
3rdthawkins: oh yeah, forgot about that, ok, will try be here tonite
vkn: thankee alt